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Untill we have a method of teching them fast chassis’s and driver’s, we will have to use the next best thing that gives the slow chassis and driver confidence that they aren’t being screwed by a fast guy with a wild card in their motor. It’s called performing complete tech on the fast guys motors.
The fast chassis and driver should be thankfull that we aren’t going to penilize them for being too fast of driver with too good of a chassis. We just need to be shure they don’t have too good of a motor. They should be proud to have complete tech performed on their motor which proves they are the fast driver with a good chassi. It is a very small penelty for being so good and fast, also very nessasary to keep the rest of the slower drivers with slower chassis’s coming back for more.
A small price to pay for being too fast. Maybe instead of tech we should just call it “TOO FAST TAX”.
YA, a TAX on the fastest racers. Now that’s an American standard we are use too.In 7 races how many shapes of heads were easily looked at?
Do ya think sealed or spec classes should have a post race chassi and driver tech? I wouldn’t want them winners to miss out on the TOO FAST TAX :bs: The Racers that lost could raid the winners kart with dial indicaters and yeild strength testers, demand all data gathered during the event and make the driver spill their guts about getten er done. Then the racers could vote to rebate or audit the winners seal.
Sorry for the blather, too much Coffee and not enough karting for me.
In your stock boat class, you could wish and hope all day long, yet with out tech and rules you have nothing but a RWYB class with a shady gentlemans agreement. “Stock” rules have always been and will always be a class that requires the most thorough set of rules to follow. Why is it every time a new stock class comes up people think that we can skip writing rules for it and hope that no one will cheat? The best “stock” kart racen I ever had was with a stocker briggs class in Marshalltown Ia. in 89-90. I was proud to get torn down and checked for compliance to the rules every time I won. They never asked me what rule could be written that would give someone else a chance in a race I was in. Seat time wouldn’t have changed my dominance, yet one written rule shure could have.
If the stock honda rules are so simple then it will also be so simple to tech.
You wonder why a Racer works on getting an edge on the competition with there motor program and I wonder why Race promoters fail to see the need to have real rules that are enforced. It’s really simple, the less you work on the rules the more I am going to work on my motor.JB, Them hondas are good little motors, you should try some of Brads honda clones. Everything is cheep and dependable untill you want it to go faster than the other guy.
“Stock is STOCK. All the differences in production are for information purposes only. I could care less what my motor puts out as long as I know the competitors motor is “STOCK.”
How do you know that a competitor is stock with out a set of specs to tech too? Stock is stock and tech is tech.
“All the differences in production are for information purposes only.”
That’s a good new spin, I suppose then, that information is only for cheaters?Mitch wrote:”We have Showroom stock classes and there are stock and then there is STOCK. Someone has to determain what that is.”
Just like in SCCA, in karting there is also someone that determains what stock is going to be. If that someone decides that the stock motor should have something then it will. S-3 looks like it’s going to go, how well, and how long it goes will depend a lot on how well the tech is written and performed.
I am a little leary of the idea that the newest hottest kart racing class of the fewture requires a 6 year old motor to be used. I do hope that “someone” person knows the supply and demand issue better than me.
It is nice to have parts available every where, yet just how widely available are 99 honda parts? Is the motor still being produced? I heard it was, but the funny thing is, I heard it was still being produced “because of karting”.“However in the short time that I did run it I spent more money on the ICC in 2 months than I did in 3 years with the Honda”
“I might not push it as hard as some, if we hurt that one we’re done.”
” organized and affordable is what comes to mind.. “I would have quoted from Mitch too but his ICC is stock which isn’t the norm in ICC classes if you want a checkerd flag.
I shure don’t understand why we need to continue promoting the ICC.
Heck if you think seals are going to fix all the classes you might as well put seals on the moto’s and ICC’s too, the 2007 $8,000.00 ICC could just get a 50 pound seal, then we all can feel safe with no need for tech.
For karting to be such a small sport we shure do have too many chioces.
Wouldn’t it be cool if there was only one manufactered kart motor with a complete set of specs for all shops and karters to follow and we had too many people that knew all the tricks to make them run well? Sorry, I have got to keep dreaming as I too am still waiting sence last year to see what developes.Mitch wrote:
“I think your leaving out the 4/ Animal/WF WF or similar is a cheap way to start Can the run with the Comers in JR whatever?
On the club side could a guy with a can Yamaha run with the 4/mods? “Shure here in Colorado anyone can run anything, the last thing we want is to exclude someone that has a kart. The racer with a can yamaha would then get a pipe to be competitive in a race with mod 4 strokes. Then the Mod 4 strokes would want a bigger cam to compete with the piped yamaha and we would be racing in circles just like we’re used to. Lets get the Burriss F200 started too and muddy it up some more.
I have to through in a little of my briggs crap experiance. The animal and WF motors are the cheeper of the power plants. Briggs motors are what has kept me in the sport all my life. The OHV is still new to briggs, earlier this year briggs came out with the 4th block design change to the OHV in as little as 2 years and still haven’t improved the motors worst characteristic it has, which I mentioned above. This does mean that anyone with a WF or Animal that has had it for more than 6 months should really look into getting the new heavier duty block designed to help hold the poor rod/crank ratio togather. Besides that little problem, the Briggs OHV is pretty good at being a kart motor in it’s stock form and could last for quite a while, one other problem though, in Colorado we don’t race them in stock form. I would bet WF’s with out rev limiters have made twice the laps in Colorado than one’s with rev limiters.
For a motor to have rules that don’t change from year to year, first we need a motor that isn’t changed from month to month.
I have got to stop the more I think about the mess karting is in the more I want to run from any “Orginized kart racing”Thanks Doug,
I would hope that sence the ICC’s are becoming boat anchors, CSC would stop the promotion of them to be used in all but one shifter class.
It’s pretty sad that the top rung of our karting ladder is weighted down with boat anchors. No wonder we can’t have too many karters in pro ICC. The ladder and racer is broke. What is the plans for next years rules?
A continuation of the broken ladder?
Maybe for a motor to be used in karting, it should be able to run a tiller for a hole day before it needs freshening. At least when I ran and blew up Briggs motors I wasn’t out $4000.00 plus dollars every three weeks.
Sorry for the bitching and moaning, yet this is a forum for it.
S-3 looks like the class for me if I deside to race again. But I still think even S-3 should only be part of our karting ladder and the next rung up shouldn’t mean trading in a dependable motor package in exchange for a boat anchor.Some compression rules and the new longer rod for a better rod/stroke ratio for the adult 4 cycle class would make the little ohv last longer. But then again I would also like to cut up some trannies off them old ICC’s so the OHV could do some shifting. 🙂
Rod/stroke ratios:
stock flathead.. 1.59/1
typical limited mod flathead.. 1.85/1
327 chevy.. 1.75/1
350 chevy.. 1.64/1
Pro stock street bike.. 2.05/1
stock animal.. 1.53/1
What’s the rod length and stroke of a Biland? It would be nice to have some gears to shift on one of them too.The closest we have ever been to getting karting up to par with the dirt bike racers was when the rotax came along, too bad it went to monopolization in stead of the Bombardier’s dealer and financing network in every city.
Mitch if your considering sending me that extra $3200.00 please just send it to Doug for me, Thanks :cheers:Hay, at least there is something to read about today on the forum.
“The motor we just finished cost me $3200 and should last all season. And its only 4 or 5 hp below the best of the built ICC’s. I’m doing my part”
Are you selling them for that or are you going to try and take all the victories with it? If your going to race it maybe a restictor on it would serve the other karters better. 😛
If I knew the answer to gettting and keeping karters going to the races, I would still be going to the races myself.
Heres another opinion. The kart racers need to controll CSC, not the tracks or shops. I know that would be hard to orginize, yet the 50% of racers that attend CSC events are the die hard karters that have a stake at making shure that other people are in thier class to race against. CSC could be a true Club that has the power of the racer to tell the tracks when, where and what, the karters are going to race.
For ease of the club members CSC should have one race at all five colorado tracks with the final at Steam Boat with no drops. Then we would be Crowning a true state chump. The tracks and shops can compete in the CSC and continue promoting thier track and components. With just six races in the run for state chump the races would be very important, even for every tacks club members, yet the racer would need to participate in other events in order to be up to speed for the state races.
Keep the ideas flowing, and PM me if you have an extra 3200 bucks laying around so I can by a stock dirt bike motor.
Aren’t stock ICC’s about 3200 dollars out of the box? Maybe we should have a claimer S-3 class?No, I am still a karter. I just had to save some doe for major home improvements and with me switching to shifters I knew that my doe curve of learning the class would be high.
I have sort of an odd view on this gas thing. I figure the faster we use it up the sooner the Middle East will have nothing to sell.
I might have to take next year off too, so I can get my wood alcohol still producing my fuel and my personal track paved.
I do plan on running my ice racer a little this winter.Gee Chaz, Could you tell us how you really feel about people that have to employ other people?
Say you had a guy mowing your yard every week before you lost your job. Then you had to lay off your yard man. Would you then be considered to have the same qualities as the employer you discribed?“Post subject: SKUSA Rules at CSC and IMI”
Darn I thought for a moment that maybe we were going to start following SKUSA’s rules?
Don’t make it only one set of used tires for the event.
Many people have a few sets of tires that would be good for one race, let them use em up.“2. Karting in general is too expensive. Built ICC engines cost as much as the entire kart and engine did just 5 years ago. “
It is OK to have one or two classes of the most expensive motor known to karting. But when CSC said all the shifter classes can use them, that’s when I said, nope I ant going to do it. Not racing for one season in the CSC is saving me enough money to build a building that will last me a life time. After seeing life with out racing it will be hard for me to justifie going racing again. There may be enough “new racers” to keep things going, but if you can’t keep the old racer interested in it, the new ones wont last long either.
A lot of little things that add up to = I might as well stay home.
Like:
Trading in a great $30.00 air filter for a $150.00 one that doesn’t filter any dirt.
Requiring $7.00 race fuel in motors that are designed for pump gas.
Buying into SKUSA’s organization and then not following it’s rules.
$400.00 “cheep” low engagement clutches that break- a lot.I once said that racing go karts was the best bang for the buck, but now I would have to say that practicing racing your go kart is the best bang for your buck.
Thanks for your feedback Doug.
In the begining of this topic I did admit that I am new to the shifter classes.
Sorry, I must be wrong in my thinking that there are inequities between well built and driven ICC and Honda Motos. I am still confuzed as to why then is the top of our ladder system called Pro ICC? I see you mentioned the great reliability you experianced with your moto package,which I should have boughten at the begining of the season, yet if you did race this year again in the pro class would the moto motor be allowed in Pro ICC? I just don’t understand, I get a few people telling me and showing some facts that there is no differences between using an ICC or a moto motor to get to the front, yet our system is in place and doing well at promoting the ICC.
Then top it off with a stock honda moto only class of S3 as being the stepping stone that ends at the top with an ICC. Where is the stock ICC at in the system?
I guess I am too stuck on my old thoughts of a 1 engine class of racing with blueprinting rules that seperate which class it gets used in rather than what class the driver decides to enter in.
O-well, you know what, shifter racing is much bigger than TAG in CSC if we would just race it like TAG with one light class and one heavy class. The only purpose I see at this time for S1 and S2 is to let slower drivers with a detuned moto get some trophies.Doug, Did Mike Frank buy your Swedtechs?
At the SKUSA web site there is a FAQ page that explains why I think that CSC is making a mistake by mixing ICC and Moto in S1 and S2.
“For drivers that are of senior age (15+), we suggest starting in either S3 (Stock Moto) which is a class that is gaining huge momentum across the US if shifter karts is where you want to be. You can then take that engine and modify it later to run in S1 or S2. “
“If you’ve got racing experience, obviously you can still choose S3 or TAG. You might also be interested in S1, S2, or ICC. These classes are for modified 125cc shifter engines, and the thrills are second to none. S1 and S2 utilize modified motocross engines, such as a Honda or Yamaha. ICC is the top level shifter karting engine, and should only be used by those with plenty of experience.”
In my previous post I asked if any one knew of the fastest time a moto motor set at round three of CSC. If it would help I can post the 16 drivers names that raced in the 2 classes, yet I think the list would only have maybe 5 moto motors that were at the end of the time sheet.
Any one beating the drum for the S-3 class growth in Colorado should also be concerned with keeping either S1 or S2 as a mod moto only class for those that want to go a nother step with their S3 package. I don’t see it as asking for too much. I do think that I wont be getting much support from the majority of these two classes as the more experianced shifter teams have allready either switched to utilize CSC’s outlaw rules and are running with ICC’s or have quit shifter racing and gone to other things.
While trying to get real comparisons of our local races of the S1 and S2 classes there is no information as to who runs what, that I can find. The only way to make any comparison would require either being there to wittness who’s driving what or to know each persons engine choice.
Sure we have some drivers racing with motos, yet I only know of ICC’s taking the checker’ed flag.
If someone in the know could please help me out with some facts and tell me which kart or driver at IMI had the fastest time in S1 or S2 with a moto motor last Sunday? I see on mylaps that the S3 class grew again, cool.
