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Set Up Town Meeting: $1,200.00
Print Out Survey: $20.00
Calm Down Shop Owners & Track Owners: $200.00 + BeerHold secret meetings to piss off Track & Shop Owners: PRICELESS
Thanks Guys, I appreciate it……. :bang
@Rich Vito wrote:
Need to be throwing those rolled black flags more! :argue
How would you know?
Ian,
Good job in your definations! You should also elaborate at the drivers meeting what to do when Mr. Blue flys. IE: Hold your line, get off the racing line, move to the right…..Good points JJ. I can hear your argument, and understand where you are coming from.
I guess we just have different takes on the whole issue. So long as there will be: different speeds, weights, skills, HP’s, and set-up’s, there will always be a higher opportunity for accidents. At the price we pay to run in the faster category, we would like for our opportunities to be minimized. But my argument basically askes for more classes, and that is what I am trying to get rid of. Guess it’s time to slow the kid down.Now what do I do :bang ?
This will be a good topic to bring up at the town meeting.
BTW All, keep sending me your responses to the survey. I will be at The Track tomorrow if you want to hand them off.
jj wrote:If the top guys can’t get past a relative newby, then they need to improve their skills anyway.quote]
We raced Sunday with every 125 shifter on track at the same time. While the racing was fun to watch, and there were plenty of karts on the track at the same time, the problem was just that. Passing the newbies was an issue for Matt and Ben. I do not believe Ben needs to improve his driving ability, I think the novice drivers, and flaggers, need more practice on the blue flag. Ben was running Matt down and could have passed for a win, but a newbie/novice did not hold his line and you can fill in the rest of the story…..
Good run Ben & Marc. You guys were very fast up till that lap, and it was not your mistake.
Point is, if this type of format is utilized, there needs to be an extended drivers meeting with flaggers and novice drivers to explain the flags again and again until everyone knows what to do when someone is approaching at 3-5 seconds a lap faster.
Same applies in TAG where momentum comes into play.I was PUNKED by Mikey and Rich at that race. And I accept your re-match challenge. Maybe Jim can put something together for Saturday afternoon 10-07-06 with spotters and black flags on the track this time. I will even drive with a gasser hanging out of the old helmut just to prove you are slow Edwards!
The Tuner Challenge: Where winners cheat, and loosers get rear ended!
If anyone has a facility that could host the Town Meeting please let me know. Seems that when I mention to my contacts that this is for a group of 50-75 karters, they all have general excuses why their facility is not available. We must have a bad reputation out there for some reason. (Bobby!)
I can book a facility that will cost us $$$$$, but I would like to avoid that if at all possible.
Please let me know if anyone who is planning on attending has a neutral site, not related to karting, and can help us put this meeting together on 10-21-06 in the afternoon.
Thanks,
And thanks to those who have already sent in the survey. That really helps. 😛You can sure dig up some pretty interesting stuff on this old karter. Maybe this could be discussed again along with Jim Keeslings ideas 😕
Please find the 2006 CSC End of Season survey attached. You will find instructions on page #1 on how to get them back to me. I would like these prior to 10-21, the date of our Town Meeting.
Thanks for all of your calls, e mails and PM’s. There are many concerned karters out there that are looking forward to next season already. This region has many opportunities, and plenty of passionate karting families that want this sport to grow and prosper.
I look forward to our Town Meeting in October, and seeing everyone at CSC#9 at The Track @ Centennial.
Thank You,
Curt Kistler
Way to go Kyle!!!!!!!
It was just a matter of time. We all knew you would get there :cheers:
By The Way,
Did you happen to see Lorenzo Mandarino take the Stars National Final on his GP this past weekend? It’s going to be fun watching you Marc and Lorenzo in Vegas on those bad ass chassis in the ICC Pro, and Roman, Doc, Patrick, Sam and everyone else on the GP Superteam kick some booty. Can’t wait.See you guys at The Track. Matty laid down a 53:359 CCW lap yesterday. Something for you to shoot at. I will predict a Very Blue Sunday at CSC#9. 😉
@fastg wrote:
interesting…
What’s gonna happen in the shifty world?
Gary
It’s going to be a long time before a 4 stroke can keep up with an ICC in the shifter world. There has been no official documented ruling that 2 smoke kart motors are being eliminated. The new restricted, electric start TM ICC looks like it may find a home in the SPEC Shifter world before any 4 stroke will.
Having said that, as soon as somebody builds a 4 stroke shifter that can out run a well tuned ICC, all of us will be lining up at the kart shops placing orders on the next trophy getter package.
Just has not happened yet for many reasons such as cost, weight, noise, gear ratios, hot exhaust pipe next to your arm and leg…No worries Mikey. I was typing my response while you were posting yours. They hit at the same time.
I am getting lots of calls and mail however. The first meeting should set the standard for many more to follow. There are lot’s of concerned karters out there that need some answers.
OK, enough already, I hear you!!!!!!
It sounds like the majority of folks want the meeting. I will hold the original date of 10-21. It will be in the late afternoon so you can still catch college football, the soccer game, kill an elk or whatever else you do when your not karting in October.
Sorry Stacey, we need to have this first meeting. If I wait for the perfect weekend it will be in mid December and too late for those of us who are trying to decide what class to run next year. Please have Daren someone else from GJ attend.
Send me your questions now for the survey. Angie will have something to me by this weekend and I will be at The Track all day Sat/Sun. Send them by PM, or to my business address: [email protected] or, fax them to me at 303-935-1783
Thanks to all of you who have called, PM’d and EM’d me offering your help on this. I look forward to getting with everyone involved very soon.
Curt Kistler
303-901-2984Brian,
That is a good idea. I have had a conversation with Angie and I think she has a good form already started. I will get a copy and if anyone else has any specific questions you would like answered you can write them down on this forum.Doug and I have also talked, and he is in favor of using this forum as “The Meeting” place. You can all see how much of a problem it is going to be to have all the key players in one place at one time. There is also a very large possibility that clashing personalities will get in the way of productivity in a town meeting environment.
At this point I say we continue to use The Colorado Karter as our platform for open discussions just like the one going on next door about the Stock Moto package. Those folks are getting it done by having positive discussions and staying on-track with the topic.
Still trying to lock in a date. I am getting about 5 calls/PM’s a day from the Silent Majority of karters that just want to get together. We may need to wait until after the SuperNats just to be sure everyone can attend.
I was looking back into the Karter Archives and found this from an old buddy who unfortunately got burned out, and was spending too much $$$ to play at the level they needed to race at. It would be nice to see Colin and Wayne back into the mix. After reading it again, I came to realize that some things never change.
Wayne MacGregor
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 67
Posted: Fri 01 14, 2005 1:18 pm GMT Post subject:
I?ve been watching this forum over the past few weeks, and as usual for this time of year, the conversation is focused on what to do in the season ahead. Since I don?t have a ?vested? interest anymore (i.e. a kid I?m ?sponsoring?) and having been around the sport for over 5 years perhaps I can offer some “food for thought:”At a macro level, I believe that karting continues to experience some significant problems. The ?national? karting business model (if there ever was one) is broken. True, Colorado has had success locally with the CSC racing series, but on a national level, participation is down overall except at a few key events. Statistics indicate that the average karter hangs it up after 3 seasons. Why? Let me offer some possible factors that the CSC may be well advised to take into consideration when setting up your ?05 competition season:
1. There are too many so-called national “sanctioning” bodies (IKF, WKA, SKUSA, STARS, TAGUSA etc etc), and if you don’t like the way these guys run things, a new one comes along about every couple of years. All are controlled by either internal politics, supplier economics or even worse by both. All too, are competing against each other for what is for a number of reasons, a limited number of participants.
If anyone thinks that these alphabet soup organizations have the best interest of karters at heart ? as an example, just look at the “wise” decisions SKUSA has made during the past three seasons. They?re trying to re-engineer themselves in ?05, but only time will tell if that is a ?success.? And always remember success to them, of course, is defined as ?increased revenue.? The message here is to be wary of whose ?club? you align yourselves to. Keep in mind that ?good ideas? can also be developed locally.
2. There are too many classes. Even the “little” CSC is proposing a total of 14 classes in 2005 which is far too many. This doesn’t “enhance” competition, it waters it down. Instead of designing new classes, karters should be coming up with innovative ways to enlarge the fields at races. Isn?t it more rewarding to finish 5th in a heat of 30 karts rather than 1st in a race with only two others?
Why must there always be extra classes for ?old,? or ?heavy? or every other possible permutation of personal and motor characteristics? Remember, you?re only racing for plastic trophies???.not an F1 seat. Think outside the box and come up with ways to run fewer heats with more karts.
3. Race days are way too long. It shouldn’t be getting dark when the final race is run, especially during the summer! Racing should be winding down by 3:00 in the afternoon, not 7:30 in the evening. Either pea-picking the preliminary grids or qualifying NASCAR (two laps and off) style would greatly reduce the time (usually the entire morning or more) needed to qualify and maybe get home before dark. Don?t hold up starting a race to wait for a competitor (no matter ?who? they are) ? If they cannot make the grid when it?s called, too bad ? that?s part of racing too.
4. The cost of karting is pretty much out of control at least in the ?top? classes. This is a grassroots sport, period. Success in karting does not and will not provide a magic ?ladder” to other forms of motorsports. ?Moving up? is something that simply cannot be done without big time financial backing. With that said, it is completely insane, in my opinion, to spend over $100,000 per year to run a shifter and yet it happens all the time. A lot more, if you’re going to “seriously” contend for one of the ?so-called? (wink, wink) national championships. A full sized car can be raced for that kind of money. Karters who can afford the dough won?t stick around very long when they do the math ? those who can?t are forced out of the sport.
5. The rules are too complicated. And, BTW, whose rules do you use? IKF, WKA, STARS, SKUSA? A little of each? Take some, modify some? Make up your own? Complicated rules encourage cheating and make tech extremely problematic and time consuming. The rules for the safety and health of competitors should be uncompromising and absolute. Fuel went unchecked in the CSC in 2004, for example. Doped fuel is a serious health issue, and is unfortunately, the easiest way to get enhanced performance. Competitors who knowingly add carcinogenic compounds to their fuel should face immediate suspension.
Mechanical rules should be as broad as possible, yet clear and just as uncompromising when violations are discovered. Ignorance should not be allowed as an excuse for rules violations.
And then there is the ?stability? factor. It seems everyone wants to ?tinker? with the rules every year. Why can?t there be stability for a fixed amount of time so that the karter doesn?t necessarily have to buy new ?stuff? on a yearly basis? The various class / rules structures are daunting enough for seasoned competitors. They are more than often totally incomprehensible to most newbies.
By all means written rules must be required. Tech inspections should be automatic for podium finishers ? DQs and/or suspensions should be handed out for violators with no exceptions what so ever.
6. Beware of ?new ideas? or formulas. Every time a ?new? concept comes along purporting to be the ?sliced bread? of karting, it seems to devolve into complication, added expense and contentiousness. Be especially wary when someone says that the ?new doodad? will control your costs. Remember these wonderful ?ideas? are coming from the fertile minds of those who will ultimately profit from them.
Example: ICC motors when first introduced, were ?sold? to karters as an affordable, reliable, fully developed alternative to the expensive, unreliable, modified moto engines because they didn?t have to be blueprinted to be competitive. Yeah right! Fast forward three years and now, if you don?t have a $7,000 Swedetech, Paul Leary, or ?fill in the blank? ?pro- built? ICC on your kart and a spare (or two) in the trailer, you can forget about being competitive.
TAG, a super idea when initiated, is supposed to offer an ?affordable? way to compete, but people (being human) can?t seem to leave well enough alone. If you look at other discussion boards, the TAG community is already showing the inevitable signs of division and fracture. In some venues, there are already limits on which motors are deemed ?acceptable.? Blueprinting is allowed in others (Norcal) and there is serious talk of completely excluding some motors such as 4-strokes. Don?t let this happen in the CSC. Buyers of a ?certain? engine package (Biland) should not be punished for inappropriate actions by the manufacturer, yet this is happening.
7. Sell your sport. Make race days more accommodating for spectators: After all, they are the primary source for new participants. Race days should be a pleasurable experience, not an ordeal. Good food, clean (dare I say ?real?) restrooms, shorter, smoother racing schedules, and other amenities would all help make race days a positive experience for them. Start by making admission free. I?ve seen an awful lot of U-turns at the money changer?s table. Get the spectators in the gate put on a good show and treat them ?right? when there. They?ll come back.
Finally as you move forward into 2005?.. Remember a ?reality? check: 99.9% of karters are hobbyists – The reason they race is for family, friendship, competition and fun. So don?t let decisions limit rather than enhance what you are really here for. Every single time rules, classes or other changes are proposed they should be designed to broaden competition rather than limiting it. More classes, excessively complicated rules and escalating costs are all limiting factors. Think about it?..none of these are really necessary to have more ?fun.?
You?ve got a good thing going. It would be a shame to screw it up.
As always, opinions expressed are my own……I’ll see you this year when I come to “visit” a race.
Wayne MacGregor
