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Where is karting going to be in 2-3yrs concerning this debate? Are 4-cycles going to be the thing soon.
My concern is that I don’t want to end up with a 2-cycle vintage motor is this change is in the future. How far in the future?
Many new 4-stroke engines coming out!
The future is here, today! The 4-stroke TAG classes were homologated a few weeks ago by TAGUSA. Marty Casey and Dave Larson will be announcing this any day. We are running the new 4-strokes in their own class at the TAG World Finals in two weeks. The new engines are the Vampire, Oral and the new Biland. All of these engines are 34 hp, 13,000 rpm and are available from the importer of all three IMI Motorsports/ Engine Racing LLC. Your 2-strokes are now officially vintage.
This debate needs to be intellectually honest. There is a difference between a motor style being regulated into retirement (EPA, etc.) vs the natural evolution of technology and groudbreaking competitive superiority. In this case the 2-stroke in Karting is not being regulated and is officially not even on the radar with the EPA. Therefore, it will be good old competition that will determine each of their fates in Karting for the foreseeable future. If one feels like the writing is on the wall regarding 2 strokes then you are already behind the curve. Don’t you watch TV, if you want to be “with it” and competitive in the future you wont even bother with the 4 stroke, you’ll follow Audi and go straight to the diesel! It’s a great discussion but we need to be honest and accurate.
2 cycles have been the cornerstone of Karting since the 50’s, since Karting’s inception. Personally, I think the 4 stroke technologies and engines that have been released as of late are very intriguing and have big, big potential.
However, in order for the landscape of Karting to change to 4 strokers, the Karters have to accept 4 strokes as something that’s not a Briggs. More impotantly, they’ll have to start buying them and choosing them over the far more popular 2 stroke.
Personally, I wouldnt see a massive change like this happening for quite a while. It’l probably go over like 4 strokes gradually beginning to creep up into the top step on the podium..then people will start buying them in order to beat those other guys!
Look at Motocross over the past several years.
What is going to happen to the rotax program?
Is Rotax making a 4-stroke?
@Rich Vito wrote:
What is going to happen to the rotax program?
Is Rotax making a 4-stroke?
Rich, no one said anything about 2 strokes getting outlawed or phased out…I think your rotax will be OK. I think people are speculating on what MIGHT happen, get out your crystal ball and jump on the speculation bandwagon.
YES Rotax makes a 4 stroke…click here to see if it will fit on your chassis!
http://www.kodiakbs.com/engines/912ULS.htm8)
interesting…
What’s gonna happen in the shifty world? Anybody coming out with a purpose built 4 stroker? If 2 cycles go away – that should put an end to the moto v.s. kart motor debate – I don’t see 4 strokes from bikes on karts.
thoughts?
Gary
Rich……….Yes your rotax is history don’t even bring it to the track, just kidding
BMW motorcycles is using a rotax 4 stroker in the new Dakar scooter!
Mike Edwards :cheers:
@fastg wrote:
interesting…
What’s gonna happen in the shifty world? Anybody coming out with a purpose built 4 stroker? If 2 cycles go away – that should put an end to the moto v.s. kart motor debate – I don’t see 4 strokes from bikes on karts.
thoughts?
Gary
Gary, see Blink’s previous post ref the Vampire motor (250 single) where they say they are developing a gearbox for the motor…actually that may have been Doug Welch…but still, YES I am confident there will be a kart specific (not moto based) 4 stroke shifter.
Blink..maybe you could elaborate since I am talking out my a$$ about your engine and wildly speculating about hearsay…wait a minute that’s what we DO here on the internet!!
hahaha
kirk
@fastg wrote:
interesting…
What’s gonna happen in the shifty world?
Gary
It’s going to be a long time before a 4 stroke can keep up with an ICC in the shifter world. There has been no official documented ruling that 2 smoke kart motors are being eliminated. The new restricted, electric start TM ICC looks like it may find a home in the SPEC Shifter world before any 4 stroke will.
Having said that, as soon as somebody builds a 4 stroke shifter that can out run a well tuned ICC, all of us will be lining up at the kart shops placing orders on the next trophy getter package.
Just has not happened yet for many reasons such as cost, weight, noise, gear ratios, hot exhaust pipe next to your arm and leg…Vampire is in development of a 250cc 4-stroke shifter based on their TAG engine. Both the Vampire and the Oral TAG engines have two versions, the one currently homologated for TAGUSA is 34 hp with a 30mm carb. You can boost that to 42 hp with a new manifold, 40mm carb and a different program for the ignition module which I can do. The 42hp engine will be used for the shifter version.
If you wait about a year Rich you can buy 3 more Rotax engines cheap and then you can tie your tent down with them.
Kirk- it is a tough decision between the 95 hp and the 100 hp!
Mike–well since I haven’t been racing for about 4 mos your right I haven’t taken the rotax to the track.
Blink–Thanks for the offer for tent tie downs but I have 4-concreted tires that work great.
I think the next 2 yrs will tell and that will be the time I will be in search for a new kart. :idn:
couple things….
I agree that 2 cycle shifters are going to be around for some time – even the guys in PC California are saying that 2 cycles have at least 10 more years.
The electric start TM has had my eye before it ever made it to the states – saw my first one @ the track last weekend. Question: I’m not an ICC expert, but didn’t the whole ICC platform start as a spec class – at least here in the states? I may be wrong – but if not, what happened?
I know there is a homologation period for kart motors – how long is it? when was the last one? I was thinking the other night considering the shortage of ’99 cylinders in stock moto, that would be an advantage for the ICC program, considering there was a SPEC homologated package.
Would Spec ICC run with Spec Honda?
just killing time….
Gary
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