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bring it up at the meeting
I can speak for my own experience…I had a blast in a field of 16 (or more?) karts. I had someone to dice with. Who cares that it was a minimax kicking my butt in the infield or that it was a junior leopard motor (Zippie!!) that just dusted me on the last lap? I thought it was cool to be racing against a 50 hp rotary. No one got their shorts wound up about things being ‘fair’ or ‘legal’. Good music, relaxed racing. The free beer and lovely umbrella girls were the best part. Oh did you guys miss that part?
I couldn’t agree more. We had a great time at The Track!!!
Great job by the corner workers as well keeping the track clear and on top of the faster guys coming through. I actually saw a move-over flag as Greg came by. Yeah! we got some work to do!!!
Looking forward to the CSC race on 8 Oct.
Hey if we have an open class, think I’ll strap on dual alky Sudans!!! That’s really old school, yesssssss ………………………….
Cheers!!
Eddy
Meek Motorsports@Doug Welch wrote:
At some point, Barry came up with an idea that I thought I would share. I hope I get Barry’s idea out right. He suggested that we group racers by speed or time only, screw the engine package. Just go completely run what you brung. At first, my natural instinct was that it would never work. But the more I thought about over the course of the day, I thought, why not? No tech, what difference would it make? No weight minimuns, what difference would it make?
I love it. Kind of like bracket racing. It would be great for club races.
Speaking from the perspective of one of the slower guys…that is. 😆
How about this…
License levels based on YOUR time…
S1,S2,S3 light and heavy. (S is for Shifter)
Light class is at 375, Heavy at 420.
No motor tech. Spec tires, safety requirements (pretech sheet), spec fuel.
Grid based on qualifying time 1st. race of the season only. Following grid based on last race finish. Didn’t come to the last race? start in the back.
This is for the gearbox karts.
TaG still follow TaGUSA rules and weights, however, still a laptime based class level. T1,T2,T3 (T is for TaG).If you run a lap time under 54 seconds at The Track, you are a S1 license, 54.001- 57.0, S2 license, 57.001 and up S3 license.
Lap times under 57.0 a T1 license, 57.001 – 58.5, T2 license, 58.501 and over, T3.Until we get a full field of 30+ karts, we won’t split the field. Learning to drive in traffic and different speed karts is part of the game. Just going to have to deal with the learning curve.
Too many people are spoiled by 6 karts on the track and plenty of room.
Time to step it up from all levels.If you plan on competiting at a National level, you had better put you kart to their specs and be ready. No need to blame the local guy for not caring.
Similar for junior karts.
Food for thought.
Jim
Jim,
I’ve been thinking about that, and while initially it sounds good – it may not play out to be as fair as it should be.
I’m sure I’m gonna get flamed here – but just trying to understand…
point: If it’s a time-based class, what happens when a guy is running a time, lets say a 56 with driving skills of, oh – 8 out of 10, and that is pretty much the limit of his package / kart setup. Then comes a guy in the same class running a 56 but his skills are maybe 4 out of 10 – his package / kart have a couple seconds of improvement to be found. After some decent practice – all of a sudden you have guy B waxing everybody and guy A needing to get more motor / kart. With electronic timing – there is no need to change anything.
Your right – there is no need to have only 6 to 10 karts on the track at a time (durring a club event). Run all the shifters just like you have been doing – the guys with comprable times will find each other on the track and battle it out – no need to change. And yeah, no whining about passing slower traffic, or getting held up – better / faster drivers will learn how and when to pass cleanly.
I’ve only run one club event @ your track (the last one) and personally, thought is was great time and I had a blast!
Just my thoughts
Gary
Gary,
Becasue at the club level, the motor doesn’t make any difference for what we are doing. Greg Welch, driving the exact same motor as you is faster than the Pro ICC. That is a fact. In 4+ years of racing, I have learned that 90% of your lap time is driver ability.You wont see your situation unless a driver is sandbagging. So what, several trophies, and up to the next level.
Easy…
Thanks,
JimSounds like you guys are really onto something here. Not sure if you need trophies at all; the fun should be reward enough…? also not sure if you need to break the groups into license levels since, as Gary said, drivers with comparable times would find each other on the track and battle it out (if all the levels were run together anyway).
This gives anybody who owns a kart of any configuration a place to race/play… then once hooked and interested in taking it to the next level (CSC) can work on acquiring the necessary equipment and skills to do so.
Brilliant!!! Karting for fun… how’s that for a concept!??
I like Jim’s idea. Perhaps with a few suggestions.
First, the thing I like is that with all karts of a type racing at the same time but different “licenses” or whatever you want o call them, you get more racing in and against more people. If the top guys can’t get past a relative newby, then they need to improve their skills anyway. The best won’t have a problem with a mixed field and this will help the novices learn how to get better, faster.
I think the time splits are very narrow and could probably use a bit more of a difference. I mean 1.5 seconds for the middle group???
Seems this could get blown past pretty quickly. Either simplify to two groups A & B with 57or 8 sec the split (for TaG) or make the middle group a bit wider.The way the sandbagger issue gets solved in other competitive type events is simple. Win in your class 2 or 3 times and you are bumped to the next class mid-season. I’ve even seen where a combo of two wins and one second place bumps people to the next class.
We could even make things a lot simpler. Make the A-B or ABC classes evenly sized. If someone keeps finishing ahead or behind people from the next class up or down 3 times, they move up or down. Forget the qualifying lap time. The person who finishes better or worse deserves to compete in the next higher or lower class regardless of how fast they make it around the track one time in a time trial situation.
jj wrote:If the top guys can’t get past a relative newby, then they need to improve their skills anyway.quote]
We raced Sunday with every 125 shifter on track at the same time. While the racing was fun to watch, and there were plenty of karts on the track at the same time, the problem was just that. Passing the newbies was an issue for Matt and Ben. I do not believe Ben needs to improve his driving ability, I think the novice drivers, and flaggers, need more practice on the blue flag. Ben was running Matt down and could have passed for a win, but a newbie/novice did not hold his line and you can fill in the rest of the story…..
Good run Ben & Marc. You guys were very fast up till that lap, and it was not your mistake.
Point is, if this type of format is utilized, there needs to be an extended drivers meeting with flaggers and novice drivers to explain the flags again and again until everyone knows what to do when someone is approaching at 3-5 seconds a lap faster.
Same applies in TAG where momentum comes into play.I didn’t mean to imply that there would never be any issues in a mixed group.
I don’t know the specifics of the individuals or race that you’re talking about but from what you’ve stated it appeared that one of the two drivers made it past the novice driver and the other didn’t. We all can run into some unfortunate timing but to me, the person who made it past is the better driver.
There is a big difference between racing and qualifying.
If all that people want to know is who can make it around the track faster then they should stop driving after the qualifying round. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a bad break from time to time, but everyone on the track has to make it past everyone else on the track. That is racing.
Good points JJ. I can hear your argument, and understand where you are coming from.
I guess we just have different takes on the whole issue. So long as there will be: different speeds, weights, skills, HP’s, and set-up’s, there will always be a higher opportunity for accidents. At the price we pay to run in the faster category, we would like for our opportunities to be minimized. But my argument basically askes for more classes, and that is what I am trying to get rid of. Guess it’s time to slow the kid down.Now what do I do :bang ?
This will be a good topic to bring up at the town meeting.
BTW All, keep sending me your responses to the survey. I will be at The Track tomorrow if you want to hand them off.
Survey… What survey? Guess I better hunt around the site a bit more.
I’m planning on being at The Track tomorrow.
I understand the frustration factor. While I’m still a relative novice to karting I used to be at the top end of RC Car and Truck racing back in Chicago and also race R/C pylon planes. It can be very frustrating having the power to pass and getting stuck behind someone you’re trying to lap for the second time, then losing your opportunity because there are only a couple laps left. Worse yet is getting nerfed trying to pass because the novice was trying to do you a favor and get out of the way. 😥
Knowing that, what I’ve also found is that good racers can pass in two or three sections of the course while great racers can pass in five or six sections of a course. The best just don’t seem to get blocked as often. That is why watching a good F1 race is so exciting.
But I do absolutely agree that novice drivers need to learn if you’re going to get lapped you can’t get in the way of the race for the top positions. Heck, I like the chance to stay on a good drivers tail so I can learn how they get around the course so fast. I view it as an opportunity to learn how to drive the best line.
jj and Curt,
Maybe what Curt is asking for is just a clarification of the blue flag for all drivers.
In my tiny little n00b racing brain, when *I* see a blue flag i maintain my speed, my line, everything..UNTIL i see the nose of the faster kart..it is at THAT point that I yield the line and let him through, knowing full well that 2nd place may try to squeeze through on the same corner or on the very next one…again, I keep my speed and line consistent. What the blue flag is NOT is a signal to slow down and drastically vary your line *in case* a faster kart might be behind you. I think the faster drivers would agree that they would prefer the slower drivers maintain the racing line when being passed or at least yield the faster line when shown a wheel. Anyone?
Kirk, good point, I’m real interested to hear what people say about this one. We personally have not had an issue with this, (yet) and what you basically said is what I have told my driver but I know someone that was black flaged at Bandi for not pulling over to the side and opening a lemonaid stand? Same thing for this question: The yellow? how far before and after a yellow flag is the no pass rule in effect? (We have been bit by this one depending on the answer.) Thanks in advance for any help!
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