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RBI Posted: Mon 01 22, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject:
Do you think it would be faster if I brake 5 kart lengths deeper, got on the gas at the same point, and had the same exit speed as when I run rear brakes only?Exactly what I thought. So at the end of the day a kart that gains say 1 to 2 kart length at a particular corner every lap and is equal with everyone else in every other corner would be 20-40 kart lengths better at the end of a 20 lap race??
Also, since we are talking about TAG with various engine combinations. Wouldn’t some motors fair better than others with front brakes? Comparing FWB to RWB only karts in a spec class like Rotax is not the same comparision as FWB to RWB only karts for various engine packages. You have now entered many more variables into the equation.
This points exactly back to why & how the weights for each motor pkg are unique and ever evolving.
Tom
With the 9.5cc head the Motori needs another 20lbs!! 😆
I think Rick said Roman was 20lbs over so that would only put him at 410lbs. Load the kart up to 420lbs like the boost port motors make it as fast as you can, no rev limiter, add front brakes, and lets race.
Also, since we are talking about so called facts here and no real data other than drivers, tuners, and finishing postions, do you know for a fact that TAGUSA wouldn’t back track on the use of the 9.5cc head? Do you know for a fact that if they reversed course on the 9.5cc head back to the 12cc head that they would reduce the published 2007 weight by 10lbs? From the pattern established by TAGUSA or lack there of, none of this is fact.
Or just maybe here and this is a stretch, take a look at the performance of the Motori in So Cal. I think there are a few okay drivers and tuners racing the Motori.
Would the addition of 10lbs for front brakes or the reduction of 10lbs for of those without front brakes lead to the same basic braking point?
My 2 cents, let’s mix the field up with karts with and without front brakes. Might as well seeing how the weights are not correct for the motor packages any how. :bang
Tom
Rick,
Your right about the post from Rusty, the weight changes that were enforced by TAGUSA starting July 1,2005 were not applied to the CSC for the GJMS on that 4th of JUly weekend race. The new weights were enforced the following CSC race weekend.
The engine we ran last year had 12cc head and limited pipe and ignition. Sounds like weight needed to be adjusted and they did so. But if they’re going to put it in a boost port weight category at high altitude, they should give back the 9cc head the original pipe and open rpm ignition as it was homologated
There were some pretty good shoes on the Motori last year
The Motori showed itself to be a very good motor at our altitude last year with the 12cc head and limited pipe and ignition. The way it ran in 2006 dictated the weight increase of 10lbs. Now to change it with the different head and leave the weight the same. The competitve advantage is decreasing the head volume at our altitude. Now a motor that was basically equal as could be is no longer.
One other thing, no one ever says anything about how differently the addition across the board for a motor of 30lbs from TAG Sr to Master effects different motors. It is impossible to think that the addition of 30lbs to the Biland or Sonik or Motori or …. has equal impact on engine performance.
I swore after the Supernationals in 2005 that I would not run a TAG kart over 400lbs ever again. I do not care how great the engine package. At 420-430lbs running with only rear breaks is dangerous and unacceptable to me personally.
Tom
Here is the thing, to believe that TAGUSA just made a mistake in the first version of the 2007 minimum weights is naive. The editor didn’t by chance go in and change a couple things here and a couple of things there. Now, without any “more real data”, they decide to lower the weight for both old and new exhaust Biland’s. If they had hard data the weights would not be the same for old and new exhaust motors.
It can only be interpreted that they, TAGUSA, have no idea what they are doing. Meaning that the new and old exhaust make a completely different beast when it comes to the Biland. I interpreted this as they reacted to the Supernational and added weight incorrectly. Then many people complained and they made a sweeping change based on word of mouth and lowered the weight???
Also, I remember the weight being changed on the Sonik during the season after the first race in Grand Junction in 2005. So to say that won’t or has not happened is false.
I myself am going to be running Rotax’s all year ( Rotax Challenge and CSC TAG Masters). The shifter is just for fun.
And Rick, it is nice to have one of everything, as you put it, that way I decide rather than having a decision made for me :cheers:
Oh yeah what about the head for the Motori does no one seem to mind that this should give a competitive edge at least up here at our altitude??
One more thing, isn’t it interesting how the Leopard seems to just quietly get by being the equal if not better at all tracks. :idn:
So anyone take a look at the TAGUSA rules lately?
The Rotax is back to the same weight as in 2006.
The Biland is at 370lbs TAG Sr. & 400 lbs TAG Master. So now they have actually reduced the weight from 2006?? Also, this weight is for both the old and new exhaust??
From the TAGUSA rules:
Biland SA250, Sidewinder and Stealth – See Engine Approval Sheet in Section 1.0. The current engines, Sidewinder and Stealth will now be fitted with the same exhaust system. This is due to manufacturing problems and the issue of noise. The old style exhaust will still be legal to use, only at tracks within organizations that noise is not an issue. Intake manifold – 30mm, 40mm and 50mm approved only.
They have also designated the 9.5cc for sprint only???
From the TAGUSA rules:
P. Motori Seven
CCV – 9.5cc Sprint Only
CCV – 12.0cc Road Race
Minimum squish – 0.028 Sprint Only
Minimum squish – 0.035 Road Race
Carburetor – NHSH 30 CS (max dia. 30.06mm)
Venturi – 1.185
Carburetor bore – 1.19
Exhaust height – See Section 1.0 as per PDF
Ignition – Digital
Exhaust SR & Master – Stamped w/Muffler
Reed thickness
Junior Engine utilizes different cylinder ? See PDFIs this the final version of the rules for 2007?
I have run RS-7 for the last 3-4 yrs with great success. I was at that GJMS race in 2005 and used the Motul but other than that particular weekend I have continued to use RS-7. Don’t be fooled, it is a good oil and when the bad batch came out we were notified. What more can you ask for?
Tom
Here is the questions I have:
1) Why did the Rotax weight get increased 10lbs and the Leopard weight stay the same? The leopard was either superior or even at all tracks.
2) In 2006, the biland with new and old exhaust were differentiated by weight. Now in 2007, TAGUSA only has one weight for both? and they increased the weight by 15lbs?
Tom
Harry, I have never met you but I am assuming you are refering to Doug’s post on checking jetting characteristics wrt the Maxjet/weatherpod suggested carb settings via a dyno. I am assuming you are confusing that with your statement “up to date we have never had our Service technician Blue Print our fr125 Rotax engine.”
Please do not compare this with the “problem” in FL, two totally different things.
I hope all of the Rotax community along with all karters everywhere “watch Colorado closely.” All they will find is a great group of racers and shops playing within the rules.
Tom Dennin
Harry, I have never met you but I am assuming you are refering to Doug’s post on checking jetting characteristics wrt the Maxjet/weatherpod suggested carb settings via a dyno. I am assuming you are confusing that with your statement “up to date we have never had our Service technician Blue Print our fr125 Rotax engine.”
Please do not compare this with the “problem” in FL, two totally different things.
I hope all of the Rotax community along with all karters everywhere “watch Colorado closely.” All they will find is a great group of racers and shops playing within the rules.
Tom Dennin
The problem with the tire is, for those of us with limited time, major changes to the kart have to made to go from MG yellows (TAG) to MOJO’s (RMC).
I guess I will have to buy a new kart 😀
I love when I actually have a reason to buy a new kart. What works better for a harder compound tire, a 50mm or 40mm axle?
Doug,
Charles mentioned that the tire was changed for the Regional and National event. Is that tire going to be the tire that is used this year and how can one distinguish between the two?
Thx
