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Ps and finally, this is not car racing and the crews that run the races have years of experience. Let’s leave the rulings to them. they have done a great job in the past and will continue to do so. This arm chair corner working and race directing will only influence and confuse our current corner workers. They should stick to what always has worked and move forward.
The blue flag is only for a driver being lapped. It should not be shown to a driver on the same lap. If a slower driver gets a good start then good for them. Stay out front as long as you can. If the corner workers are showing the blue flag to a slower driver (on the same lap) it will only increase the risk of accidents. The slower driver that is RACING will only get defensive and drive unpredictable lines. It is their responsibility to drive the race line. Period. This is why the X would be a better tool to show the faster driver coming from the back who he has to contend with on each driver.
That would really suck to be in the middle of a race as a newbie running the best race of your life and have a corner worker make the call that someone behind you is faster. the blue flag files, you make room for the “faster” driver, and give up 3 positions. The blue flag has never been used for this in any form of racing and should not start here. It makes absolutely no sense.
Sorry guys but I have to comment on a few things.
#1. Karting has been going strong in Colorado for years and years. You guys are acting like this is a new problem. This is the first few races of the year. It happens every year. Drivers have waited all winter to race. Some of them get a little amped up and drive over their heads. You will see that people will settle into their abilities for the remainder of the year. That is not saying that wrecks will go away.
#2 The comment about waiting 2 or 3 laps to make a pass. Unless I am in second and trying to setup the leader for a pass, I am not going to wait two or three laps to pass. Especially if the guy is 2 or 3 seconds slower. Somehow, the slower the driver the wider they make themselves by driving off of the line and slowing corner momentum.
If a driver is 10 seconds slower then the guy behind him it is NOT the responsibility of the corner worker to move the slower driver unless he is being lapped. I do not care if Gary Carlton is on my butt he is going to have to work to get by me.
#3. Putting an X on the slower drivers. The comment posted is if you are fast you should know who is slow in your class. BS. With the sport growing so quickly there are people that are in the races that you have no idea who they are. Now, we have to do research and profile every driver on the track? Why not make it easier by putting an X on them (like everyone else in the country is doing on a regional level). The guys that do not want the X on them care more about people watching them and knowing they are a rookie or slower. Rather then being concerned about safety. It is just as much responsibility for the new driver to be safe as it is the 10 year vet.
I have raced with a lot of the drivers in Colorado for several years. TAG masters is the funnest group of guys out there. They race hard and respect everyone out there. There are still problems in that class. Once again it is racing and not underwater basket weaving. A very nice guy in TAG masters and I were racing for second place on the last lap at Nations Cup a few years back. We got into each other in turn one. I thought it was his fault, he thought it was mine. I spoke with people in the pits and the majority said “it was 2 guys fighting for the same real estate”. They guys comment was ” You and I should be on the podium 2-3 right now”. My comment was “I don’t race for third”. In the end, we lost the national #2 and #3 plates for the following season. I would not have changed a thing. It was a racing incident. Period.
I am stoked that there are so many entries this year. It seems like there are a lot of new people int he sport. I am putting together a ride for the second half of the season. I look forward to meeting some of you. I hope that you all do not get discouraged by racing accidents. It happens and unfortunately is part of the sport. If there is anything I can help with PM me. You have the fortune of being in the best regional program in the country. There are some of the most knowledgable people in the industry here in Colorado like Duog Welch, Brad Linkus, JB Olmstead, Jim Jagermeister, Bill & AJ Noud, Angie, Ian, etc etc. All on the east slope with more experience then anyone in the country. They will all look at this and I am sure come up with a solution. All I can say is just keep digging and get faster then the guys causing the wrecks. They can not wreck you if they can not catch you. The guys that cause problems tend to either weed themselves out of racing or learn how to drive to their abilities.
Hope this helps and does not cause drama.
Richie
Doug hit it right on the head. The mix of new drivers and national caliber karters will only increase the incidents but is a fact that people have to deal with.
Club racing and karting is not the only open wheel racing that involves accidents. Look at Star Mazda. They are always yellow flagged as there is accidents all the time.
While I agree the Vet drivers need to be a little more patient, the new drivers need to be a bit more consistent. Say one of the quickest drivers in the class has a mechanical problem in the pre final and has to start at the back of the pack. He is 2 or 3 seconds faster then 1/2 the field. He is there to win the race. The reasons he is faster is 1-Braking, 2-corner speed, 3-exit speed. These all work together to setup passes.
You get a run on a guy that is 6 lengths ahead of you onto a straight. You catch his bumper at the end of the straight. Then, the new guy brakes 30 feet early. There is no place for the faster driver to go. He is caught with too much speed. He can not go to the inside as he is still behind the kart in front of him and would cause a wheel to wheel wreck which is even worse. This is unintentional but will cause a bump.
Now the Vet driver did nothing but drive the same line as he always does. He did not “slide job” the guy to cause an accident but still makes contact. It would not be fair to the Vet driver to get penalized for that bump because he was only driving the race line. The kart in front slowed early and the rear kart ran out of room. Where do you look at these incidents and decide who is to blame?
Now, the guy that is punting people all over the track all weekend needs to be kicked out of the series until he understands what he is doing. Chances are however, that guy is new to racing, has found speed quickly, and does not know how to use it. A prime example of it happened this last weekend at STARS in the ICC class. A kid coming from JICA was running in the to 10 all weekend but was hitting everyone out there. It was apparant he was driving over his head with 120# heavier kart. I believe he was penalized for it. None the less, it happens everywhere.
I have seen tracks and series make the newer drivers wear an X on their helmet and rear number plate to show the faster drivers who they are. Maybe this will help. I know when I come up on a driver with an X on him I take it very easy to get around him. Maybe someone should implement that rule for first year drivers or drivers that qualify over 2 seconds slower then the majority of the field. I know some people would think they are being pointed out for being slow but it would truly be for your safety. Just a thought.
Last but not least the comment about “only racing for a trophy”. Racing is racing. I do not know about you but when I race or any of my friends race, we race to win. Second place sucks. I do not care if you want to race mopeds to the corner store against me. Be prepared to race because I hate to lose. With the majority of the people going to kart races wanting to win you will have accidents. If we can teach the knuckleheads that wreck everyone how to properly race, the incidents will go down and the weekends will be enjoyed much more by all. Just remember, things happen very quickly in karts. Most of the time, accidents are the fault of noone. Just a race incident.
I have not been to the races this year but know what everyone is talking about. The beginning of the year brings out these posts every season. The guys that are involved in the accidents and post these will be the ones giving advise to the new drivers next year. It is an ongoing process.
I will see everyone in GJ in a few weeks:
Richie
You have to get a Super A license to run the super ICC class. This is the same license that you need to run F1. You can get it in America through running in the ALMS and a few other race series. I think you have to run in ICC and do well for some races before being awarded a Super A license without running in the car series.
I think this is correct. I know Alan was going to run in Europe a couple of years ago and had his Super A license because of the ALMS he ran.
You probably want to have 3 engines in the trailer or access from the engine builder that you get your from.
Tip #1. Do not attempt to race JICA without a reputable builder tunung your engine. You will get smoked with box stock.
Tip #2. Have someone setup your carb adjustments on the stand for JICA before he goes out and do not have him adjusting on track. You can get away with this after lot’s of practice.
Tip #3. Talk to the importer of your chassis line and ask them whose JICA engines they run. See if they do stars west and rent a spot under their tent for the first race or 2 until you get comfortable with the class. If they do not offer tent space ask about trackside support at the west races.
If the team you run with has spare motors for lease you might want to start there. This way, if you shell an engine you can lease another from them for the remainder of the weekend.
Getting into ICA and JICA alone is a huge learning curve. I suggest that if your importer of your chassis does not do stars west then contact Tony Ventresca about an arrive and drive. They have been producing JICA champions for years and know the ins and outs of the engine.Hope this helps
Whats up T Money,
I am firghting my back again. i can’t wait til surgery. I have some business things to put in place before I get cut up so everything runs as smooth as possible. I was hoping to come over the hill this week but Dr said no travel for a bit.
I plan on spending some Q time at the track with all of my extended family as soon as I can start walking upright like a human again. I will come by the tent once in a while and “Super Tune” your kart.
I am looking forward more to this year then any other. I will miss racing with Alan though. I had a great time on and off the track. Will take some getting used to, not being at STARS.
Say hello to your whole famn damily. I will be over there soon.
Richie
BDT,
I am out of karting now but lived karting for years until last year. Barry at Billet is one of the coolest guys around. Not to mention, he produces results on the track. Barry has high end professional racers under his tent as well as the noobie just starting out. He treats every one of his customers the same. Do not confuse his being busy with being rude. I am sure you are like me, when I go to a shop I expect 100% attention. Sometimes the ball get’s dropped.
You will also find that every kart shop in Colorado is great. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. But, with success comes customers. With customers comes stress & hectic 18 hour days that you can not do everything. Shop owners: Be careful what you wish for.
I worked with Barry for several years and he gets the job done and has fun doing it. Bottom line is, if you want to go faster and win then sign with Barry. If you want 100% attention all the time it is impossible. No shop in Co will be able to do that AND help their customers win.
Word of wisdom to anyone that has NOT owned a kart shop: RACE WEEKEND FRIDAYS SUCK. If you want to BS about racing come in on Tuesday.
I hope this helps and does not cause debate. I am simply trying to paint a picture of good ol Barry.
By the way, I was one of the suppliers that could not get him kid karts so blame me. Like Doug said, there is very little if any money in Kid karts and I have all the free work at home that I can handle. I am sure Barry could work on getting you a couple of karts if you give him a little time.
Barry, I am trying to make it over the hill to see my tall customer (Back Permitted) and might talk Kelly into sticking around for the races. I will let you know if I feel up to it in the next couple of days.
Richie
Correct m if I am wrong but wouldn’t putting a second rotor on the axle then change the center flex of the axle. Thus making people buy softer or different rebounding axles?
Doug, step in here if you would. You are the expert on chassis setup and axles. Would you agree or disagree?
I am just saying that everything you do to change the kart is going to cost you money. If you do not carry 3 or 4 different axles and change them as the track changes throughout the weekend then you are not doing everything to get the maximum out of your chassis.
There is a reason that shifters run front brakes. Safety. I have been in a shifter a few times that either the fronts or rears fail. You can not stop. ASK AJ Noud about rear brake failure at a test in California (Moran). He hit turn one at over 85 miles an hour, flipped over the fence, and landed on the hay bails. NOT PRETTY.
Now with that said about shifters, I see horse power increases every year on TAG engines. Brad, would you agree that the power of 2007 tags are better then 1997 engines?
Then, look at the weight ran 10 years ago compared to now. Karting has evolved into a sport that is attracting an older crowd of drivers. With age sometimes comes more weight. God knows I am a bit heavier then I was at 16 years old. At 16 I was 4’10 and wrestled the 98 # weight class. I eat more then 98# in a day now.
I am not an engineer. In fact, I am not educated. I was kicked out of the school district before I could graduate. But I do know that more power + more weight = more inertia. (SP?)
I also know that you will never make everyone happy. Every decision that is made will make some happy and piss off others. This is motorsports. If you think front brakes will make you faster then pony up and buy them. In fact, we used to take the fronts off of some of our 125 chassis for heavier tag guys. I have about 15 complete sets sitting in a box. I would be willing to sell complete sets cheap cheap. This will help anyone that thinks they will go faster with them.
The point has been said over and over here. If you are fast without front brakes you will be fast with them. If you ran up front last year you will be in the same boat this year. If you were a back marker last year, you should be testing and getting driver and chassis together and improve this year and not worry about adding things to your kart to go faster.
I have a test for you. Go out and run 25 laps straight. If you can do these laps as hard as you can and your times are within 1 to 1.5 tenths of each other from start to finish, then you are ready to worry about more engine, front brakes, nitrous, studded snow tires, blinker fluid, whatever. But, if you can not consistently run within a tenth EVERY LAP, work on your kart and driving then get back on here and protest front brakes.
I hope this comes off the way I am hoping. I am not trying to stir up anything rather point out that there are more ways of getting faster without spending more money at this point. I promise you, every karter in the world, Kyle Ray, Alan Rudolph, Greg Welch, David Fore, etc etc will be faster this year then they were last. Because they test, make changes, and perfect their skills. This is what makes champions. Not more HP or front brakes.
Gotta go make money now so I can buy new front brakes for the year.
RB
I have heard talk about adding front brakes will increase price. Wouldn’t adding a second rear brake system add price as well? Or is someone giving away free rotors, calipers, and shoes.
We have mixed feelings about front brakes and if they will be an added advantage. It is split. The guys that do not think they are faster will not spend the money and the oposite.
From what I have read, they are allowing front brakes as an option without adding weight. Sounds good. Let’s run it and see how it goes. Just don’t change the rules mid-season. Run the whole season.
With regards to this sport being a cost effective motorsport you are all extremely wrong. Talking from experience it is very expensive. When you have to buy 2 to 3 sets of tires on a weekend @ $180.00 to be competitive, you are talking about an expensive motorsport. I can tell you 8 to 10 other types of racing (big cars) that are the same or less money then running a full season of STARS in ICC. Hell, BMX racing is expensive. You have to have a lighter bike, better chain, better brakes, better wheels, better tires, etc etc. Then you find the same thing there. Little Jimmy is fast because his daddy spent $2,000 on his bike. It is the same ol song and dance.
You show me a guy that qulifies in karting on used tires (over 5 laps old) and I will show you a guy that is 4 to 5 tenths slower then what he should be. How far up the charts do you think you will go reducing your time by 1/2 second?
Doug Welch put’s it best when he says it is 95% chassis and driver. But, you will only be at your quickest on your 4th or 5th lap of a new set of tires. If you go faster the more time you put on tires, chances are your chassis is not tuned or you are still learning how to drive that track.
Bottom line is, run what you have, get better behind the wheel and with the wrench’s, then add the “performance enhancing parts”. Barry Bonds did not become a home run hitter because he “allegedly” uses PHD, he just became better. When you are at the top of your game but still not good enough to win, then start looking for other advantages. Until then, keep testing.
What the hell? I just went on a typing spree. I have got to lay off the red bull.
RB
By the way, letting someone run in a class 30 to 40 pounds lighter is more dangerous then ever. Imagine the extra acceleration you get out of corners and on the straights. Where do you think I am going to make up that time? In deeeeeeeep braking. Slide job city. And I am 40 to 50 pounds heavier so it will hurt a lot more then being slammed by someone in a lower weight class
Sorry guys. i would love to race and had a partner but I do not think anyone wants to be on the same track as I am while I am taking pain meds.
MZ are softer and faster but shred quicker. They fade after use the longer you go. Good tire to use if you can change after qualiying and a heat race.
Stacey,
Maybe you guys can put a banked asphalt oval in at your track with lights. Run Briggs stuff. That would be the coolest. Count me in.
