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Just in case it isn’t incredibly obvious to all…
My comments about getting more karts across the finish line in races has very little to do with me other than perhaps a slight perceived increase in safety. (more karts on the infield might actually be safer)
Yes I’ve been nerfed out of two races but one case was aggressive, but not intentional and I wouldn’t have expected a black flag for the other driver, the other case I’m not so sure about.
Regardless, finishing those races might put me way up into perhaps mid pack of TAG Masters. Big deal. Me finishing the year out 5/10 or 8/10 doesn’t mean anything. If you’re not on the podium it doesn’t matter. Maybe next year.
I would like to see the Best drivers finish in 1, 2, 3 and qualify for the Nationals, and I would like to spend more time on the track racing with as much of the starting field as possible. I think that is what everyone wants out of racing. No one wants to spend all that prep time to sit out the Main or get injured.
So, can we make this better?
I think so and apparently Jamie and others think so.
Why is trying to improve things so controversial?
Sorry guys but I have to comment on a few things.
#1. Karting has been going strong in Colorado for years and years. You guys are acting like this is a new problem. This is the first few races of the year. It happens every year. Drivers have waited all winter to race. Some of them get a little amped up and drive over their heads. You will see that people will settle into their abilities for the remainder of the year. That is not saying that wrecks will go away.
#2 The comment about waiting 2 or 3 laps to make a pass. Unless I am in second and trying to setup the leader for a pass, I am not going to wait two or three laps to pass. Especially if the guy is 2 or 3 seconds slower. Somehow, the slower the driver the wider they make themselves by driving off of the line and slowing corner momentum.
If a driver is 10 seconds slower then the guy behind him it is NOT the responsibility of the corner worker to move the slower driver unless he is being lapped. I do not care if Gary Carlton is on my butt he is going to have to work to get by me.
#3. Putting an X on the slower drivers. The comment posted is if you are fast you should know who is slow in your class. BS. With the sport growing so quickly there are people that are in the races that you have no idea who they are. Now, we have to do research and profile every driver on the track? Why not make it easier by putting an X on them (like everyone else in the country is doing on a regional level). The guys that do not want the X on them care more about people watching them and knowing they are a rookie or slower. Rather then being concerned about safety. It is just as much responsibility for the new driver to be safe as it is the 10 year vet.
I have raced with a lot of the drivers in Colorado for several years. TAG masters is the funnest group of guys out there. They race hard and respect everyone out there. There are still problems in that class. Once again it is racing and not underwater basket weaving. A very nice guy in TAG masters and I were racing for second place on the last lap at Nations Cup a few years back. We got into each other in turn one. I thought it was his fault, he thought it was mine. I spoke with people in the pits and the majority said “it was 2 guys fighting for the same real estate”. They guys comment was ” You and I should be on the podium 2-3 right now”. My comment was “I don’t race for third”. In the end, we lost the national #2 and #3 plates for the following season. I would not have changed a thing. It was a racing incident. Period.
I am stoked that there are so many entries this year. It seems like there are a lot of new people int he sport. I am putting together a ride for the second half of the season. I look forward to meeting some of you. I hope that you all do not get discouraged by racing accidents. It happens and unfortunately is part of the sport. If there is anything I can help with PM me. You have the fortune of being in the best regional program in the country. There are some of the most knowledgable people in the industry here in Colorado like Duog Welch, Brad Linkus, JB Olmstead, Jim Jagermeister, Bill & AJ Noud, Angie, Ian, etc etc. All on the east slope with more experience then anyone in the country. They will all look at this and I am sure come up with a solution. All I can say is just keep digging and get faster then the guys causing the wrecks. They can not wreck you if they can not catch you. The guys that cause problems tend to either weed themselves out of racing or learn how to drive to their abilities.
Hope this helps and does not cause drama.
Richie
The blue flag definitely means get out of the way, directly from the rules:
6.12.5 Blue Flag w Orange Stripe: Indicates that the driver is being overtaken by a faster, lapping kart. The driver is to allow those attempting to pass to do so safely and without difficulty.
It’s commonly known as the “There’s a race going on and you’re not involved so get out of the way” flag.
There were a few touches in the shifter race for sure- I got punted off the track because someone in front of me (not naming names here) was braking waaay to early and I got hit from behind. Luckily I was able to continue, the guy that hit me wasn’t. We talked after- it was a “racing incident” nothing more, no hard feelings. It’s bound to happen with the field lap times are spread over 4 seconds…
My only comment about the flags though- specifically the blue now that I get to run with the really fast shifters… When you’re waving it at me, let me know how many cars to let by. A blue flag and 3 fingers would have been a great help on Sunday. I felt bad for getting in the middle of the race at the front, i tried my best to get out of the way but had no idea those guys were all still together. my $.02
By the way, I was there on Sunday looking for a laid back club race- what a suprize! It felt like a CSC race. I’ll be more prepared next time, but I’m still not buying new tires… Big thanks to everyone organizing and working there- you do a great job.
-Tyson
@Tyson wrote:
The blue flag definitely means get out of the way, directly from the rules:
6.12.5 Blue Flag w Orange Stripe: Indicates that the driver is being overtaken by a faster, lapping kart. The driver is to allow those attempting to pass to do so safely and without difficulty.
It’s commonly known as the “There’s a race going on and you’re not involved so get out of the way” flag.
-Tyson
No, thats not what the flag means and it doesnt say anywhere in the line you typed that you are supposed to move over and let them by. “The driver is to allow those attempting to pass to do so safely and without difficulty.” That means hold your line and dont make a bone-headed move like trying to get out of the way. The faster driver is going to drive to where you are not. Making a move to get out of the way is going to put you right in the open spot he is driving to. Besides having the corner workers show the blue flag and number of fingers showing how many behind you is there any other info you need to have, maybe kart number and color of his driving suit, would that help you out?
Actually, at the national level they try to show a number of fingers of the number of karts you, the lapper, are to let by.
6.12.5 Blue Flag w Orange Stripe: Indicates that the driver is being overtaken by a faster, lapping kart. The driver is to allow those attempting to pass to do so safely and without difficulty.
The rule should be written accurately- it should say ‘…the driver is about to be overtaken…”
The current rule makes it sound like they show a blue flag when the driver is actually being passed.
I learned some new things on Sunday as a newbie that might help others. Hopefully what I learned is correct-let me know if it’s not. I had a camera on and really wanted to finish. My goal was to get good footage and finish and definetly not screw anyone else up in the meantime. In my heat race I spun in the hairpin on the first lap and was playing catch up the rest of the race. Eventually I started getting blue flagged. I THOUGHT I was to let others by and so took a different line and pointed to the side I wanted them to take. Problem was, there was no one right behind me! I just lost lots of momentum by pulling to a different line and slowing to let cars by that weren’t there YET. After lots of this, I kind of figured, screw it, I’m going to keep going and If they get right behind me and I can do it safely, I’ll let them by. After the race I asked some folks and concluded that when I see their nose I will lift or brake and allow the pass. Until then I am still racing with the guys behind me that aren’t lapping me. The other problem with moving over nicely is that the cars you’re actually racing come through behind the car/s you’re letting through.
Anyway I hope I’m learning this accurately, j
Hey Ken–
Getting out of the way can be as simple as leaving door open to the inside of a tight slow turn- if you set up for it wide and keep a few feet away from the curb they can easily drive right under you, that’s where I would want them to go. I don’t mean to imply zig-zagging around.The race at the front is serious and have a huge amount of respect for the amount of work those guys put in to get there- I will continue to do my best to stay out of the way of the race for the win.
I also didn’t mean to imply any sarcasm in my post- I was addressing the comment that the blue flag was a “warning that faster drivers were approaching”. I always understood it to be let the faster driver- who is lapping you- get by, in the least bone-headed way possible.
At Stars in the main, the blue flag is the removal flag. Once you see the blue, you report to the pits. Failure to do so and they stop scoring you at all. It is used as a plow for the leaders. It may remove as many as half of the racers.
I would not advocate that here. I do not think its fair. The slower guys paid their money, they deserve as many laps as they can. I do greatly respect it that they don’t try to “race” the leader, or second or third for that matter. Like Tyson pointed out, you don’t have to get out of the way but you can make it easier. I do like the finger approach ( not the index finger) but I’ve seen too many times a heated battle for the lead get ruined when the lapper lets one by and chops off the second guy. Its not intentional and he knew there were two, it might not have happened.
Just remember, the fast guys are not going to be patient about getting by. They will not follow for a lap or even a few corners unless they have to. If they do have to follow for a bit, they may not be too polite when they finally get around.
The blue flag is only for a driver being lapped. It should not be shown to a driver on the same lap. If a slower driver gets a good start then good for them. Stay out front as long as you can. If the corner workers are showing the blue flag to a slower driver (on the same lap) it will only increase the risk of accidents. The slower driver that is RACING will only get defensive and drive unpredictable lines. It is their responsibility to drive the race line. Period. This is why the X would be a better tool to show the faster driver coming from the back who he has to contend with on each driver.
That would really suck to be in the middle of a race as a newbie running the best race of your life and have a corner worker make the call that someone behind you is faster. the blue flag files, you make room for the “faster” driver, and give up 3 positions. The blue flag has never been used for this in any form of racing and should not start here. It makes absolutely no sense.
Ps and finally, this is not car racing and the crews that run the races have years of experience. Let’s leave the rulings to them. they have done a great job in the past and will continue to do so. This arm chair corner working and race directing will only influence and confuse our current corner workers. They should stick to what always has worked and move forward.
This may be a dumb question since I am relatively new to karting as of last year but, why aren’t small mirrors allowed on the karts? Do they fall off a lot or something? Do they hurt more than they help somehow? Seems glancing in a mirror would be safer than spinning your head both ways to find where the faster driver really is..
C’mon guys,
You’re overcomplicating this. Blue flags should be used for karts that are getting lapped. If you get blue flagged, let the faster kart(s) by. See Doug’s earlier post for the proper way to let faster karts pass.
Blue flagging karts on the same lap doesn’t make any sense because we don’t have mirrors and can’t see who’s coming. Besides, there’s no action to take in that situation other than just try to stay in front. Blue flagging like this is just a distraction.
Charles
One other thought on this: Keep listening. You can often hear when another kart is getting close.
Charles
So, at the end of a workday, I’m reading the posts and come across this topic. As a BRAND NEW Karter preparing for my first race at GJ, this thread is of particular intrest to me. I’m trying to set realistic goals for my first race:
1) Compete, have fun, and be safe.
2) Stay out of the way of quicker drivers by driving ‘properly’.
3) Get better every time on the track.
4) Try to drive a consistent line (this will probably be the most difficult in this short list).Reading your responses has opened my eyes to the gravity of the situation you all are describing and I’d simply ad this…as a new driver, if wearing an “X” on my number plate means a safer race environment for all (you shouldn’t need to know my dossier to recognize that I’m a new karter but at the same time, in the heat of a race my telling you via an “X” on my plate shouldn’t hurt either), then I’m all for it. So what do I care, I have to tell my buddies I wear an “X” because I’m new? Not an issue here. As a new racer, I find myself asking more questions about driving etiquette and proper procedure than I do about getting quicker…all in good time. In the meantime, I hope to have a blast and ‘do the right thing’ out on the track.
Looking forward to meeting all of you and racing with you.
Once again this is not car racing. it is kart racing. It is not SCCA it is CSC. I again agree with Charles. The blue flag is meant for lapped traffic, period. It is not the responsibility of the corner worker to make the determination of who is fast and who is slow. His job is to watch for accidents and keep the racers safe. In no racing is there a flag for someone on the same lap that is slower then the rest of the field.
I had an 80 driver at STARS Reno a few years ago that was not as fast as the front field but ended up second in the final because he got a great start and was very hard to pass. You could see that Cole Whitt was doing everything he could to pass him (and he was the class of the field) and yet the officials never threw a flag. My driver was a bit slower but still earned the trophy.
Every year there are people that try and change the way the races are run. Every year (to their credit) the officials run the series the same way with great success. I am truly sorry that you had some early incidents and hope things get better for you. Unfortunately, you will not find a solution to this problem anywhere in the country (or around the world). Just be thankful you do not run in Europe. They will plow into anything in their way. Bumping is a way of life for them and is only racing.
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