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I think your approach is correct, but it needs to be attempted when the field is at it’s largest (ie. CSC event). Otherwise, the data becomes skewed. The only reason I suggest the CSC event is that it appears this is when most everyone shows up to race together. Why not attempt to delete weight for the slow guys and/or increase weight for the fast guys? Deleting weight would be preferred. It seems like a simple approach. I would bet that most everyone has some weight added to their kart just to be legal.
anybody can go out and buy anything they choose, but to race in a club series or Rotax max or CSC you have rules to keep the competition somewhat even.
Two things about this statement. First, I have yet to see the “fast guys” go out and buy track specific engines. The oppurtunity has been there. If the weight equalization technique could become track specific then the engine/track conversation would become moot. If I was a betting person, I would suspect that it would not be the “fast guys” buying engines rather the intermediate racer to try anything possible to get to the front guys. If this is true then the racing would be even closer.
Second, one can not compare a club series to a spec series and then to a regional series?? Three completely different type of events.
I understand the notion of keeping the TAG class close, competitive and cost friendly but the only way to achieve this is by better wieght equalization techniques. I still say go to the Touring series method of weight equalization and I guarantee the track specific engine conversation will become a thing of the past. Why not try it? At a track like IMI or Bandimere where it becomes very apparent who’s fast and who is not.
Tom
Why should anyone dictate to me what engine pkg I can use where? If I want to buy every engine pkg out there just for the fun of it and race different ones at different tracks why should I be stopped? Just because everyone wants to Keep “the costs down” they want to limit choices????
Keeping cost down, give me a break. If your so worried about cost, stick to one engine and don’t worry about things out of your control. How many people are really going to buy different engines for different tracks? Why not worry about the lead sleds we drive in TAG? Why not worry about your driving skills? Why not worry about your tuning skills?
The fast guys will be fast no matter what they drive. This has been proven time and time again.
Don’t want to disagree but you do get less on resale value if the seal is removed, no matter what records are kept. If anything else, you have to pay the money to get it re-sealed if you want to run RMC. Also, I personally would not buy an un-sealed Rotax engine and I assume I am in the majority rather than in the minority when it comes to that. When I purchased my spare Rotax engine I had it sent directly to an authorized service ctr and inspected. This motor was already sealed. Once I got the thumbs up from the service ctr then I purchased the motor. I grant you I paid to have it shipped there and then to me, but a seller always has a motivation to sell. Meaning, one could make up all the records they want stating anything or simply verbalize anything. This would not mean a thing to me.
I want to qualify the statement above so no one takes this the wrong way. I know Tim George personally and would trust him and his record keeping. This is just my opinion on the this topic nothing more.
To all,
For all of those who weren’t able to make the race, I would like to share my four day adventure at the supernationals. This was my first “big race.”
The weather all weekend was perfect. No wind, no rain, and really no clouds. The temperature only varied about 20 degrees from the racing when the sun was up and racing when the sun was down.
My father and I arrived at the RBI tent Wed. afternoon and found everything setup and waiting for my arrival. I want to thank Richard, AJ and Preston for all the help they provided. You guys rock. Everyone under the RBI tent worked as a team.
Thursday morning was our first practice out of six or seven total. We practiced in both the dark and light. My first practice I stuck the engine after the third lap on the track. I had the bottom end to lean. At this point, the RBI team stripped down my engine and we had parts shipped over night to replace the piston.
Now I need to thank Jim Keesling for letting me borrow his backup engine. I am a true believer that “what comes around goes around” and at the first CSC race in Grand Junction Jay broke his Rotax and I lent him my spare. Jim let me use the engine for as long as I needed HOW COOL IS THAT!! Thank you so much JIm.
With Jim’s engine on the RBI, I only missed one practice on Thursday. I also ran his engine very rich. My times were a little slow but I was learning the track and the braking points.
We had a single practice on Friday morning and then qualifying. I believe it was on my third lap of qualifying that coming out of turn two a haybale jumped out and grabbed me 😆 I caught the haybale by about an inch and the impact was so great that it completely sheared off my axle with the sprocket and tire still attached. Luckily, the chassis was not affected and still straight. I can’t say the same for me though. I made my way to the doctor yesterday and found out that I have three cracked ribs.
After the haybale incident, the RBI team put a new pod on and axle and the kart was ready to roll. Unfortunately, the same could not be said about me. The track consisted of 3 out of 13 left hand turns and for each of those turns I had to turn my body sideways,lift myself out of the seat, and steer with my knee and right hand. Never-the-less, i made my way halfway through the field in each of the heat races.
For the final, I finally put back on my engine which Paul Leary inspected/worked on and made sure all was put back together correctly. On the start, I gained three or four spots from my starting position of 11th. I stayed with the main group of front runners and was waiting until my tire pressures came up. I knew I had a kart capable of winning. What a great feeling that was. Then the unthinkable happened the top of the engine popped off? No one seems to know how this could have possibly happened but it did. I immediately shut it down and coasted off the track.
I spoke with Todd Bellew many times and let him know how pleased I was with the event. The schedule was maintained practically to the minute. The other classes were great to watch and the track layout was wide open and had lots of room to make clean passes. The tire wear was minimal.
Thanks to all the SKUSA officials for making an awesome event I look forward to next year.
Tom
Thanks Curt likewise with you guys I will come by and say Hi
Do you figure the gearing will be similar to that of Steamboat?
Tom
Todd,
The only way any of my suggestions would be an insult is if any of them were true! Everyone has heard the rumors about so and so on such board not allowing weights to be changed. It is an unfortunate thing to even have to think about. Never-the -less, the rumors are out there so it is in the realm of possibility. I started in a Tag kart 4yrs ago. I actually have two Rotax’s karts and a Sonik kart. I love the TaG concept and I have finally decided that the Supernationals will be my last TaG race. I will be there with a smile on my face no matter what the weights are. How could I not be 😀
One thing you didn’t address is the ’05 Biland being at virtually the same weight as last years in the Supernationals while all other Tag engine/kart pkgs are heavier. I have to say Curt is spot on with his comments regarding the Biland. If I am wrong please correct me on this.
Tom
First, Todd do you remember this e-mail? “Tom,We released a primer about 3 days ago on our web site that covers this.Tag weights are per our 05 book. Yes the Sonic in Masters is 415.”
Second, you have taken 10lbs off the leopard, easykart, Rok and ’05 Biland and added 5lbs to the Sonik, Montori Seven and Comer. My question goes to your statement about the Sonik being the dominate engine pkg in CO. I do not think a Sonik was ran in the Sr class except for once. It was definitely run in the Masters class but the same people who were fast this year in the Sonik were fast last year in ohter engine pkgs. So how can you make that statement?
Now you have in effect created a net change of 15lbs with the motors I listed above. If you were using the CSC as a basis for changes as you indicated from your post, how can the ’05 Biland lose 10lbs? I believe they did pretty well with the right drivers at all tracks. What about the Leopard losing 10lbs??? I’m pretty sure I saw Mile Karting karts at the front always unless something unfortunate occurred. The only wieght change that seems to make any sense is the decrease of 10lbs for the Easykart. They just seemed to be underpowered because I know they had quality drivers and tuners.
The changes in TaG weights always seem to be so out of touch with reality. If you are changing them due to the track layout that would make sense. If you are changing them due to engine mfg pressures or sponsorship issues that would sense. It would suck but it would make sense. If you are changing them because of actual data that was publishable that suggested a way to eliminate particular advantages of particular engines that would make sense. To change the rules less than 30 days out with no warning????? What possibly could motivate this? Some of us have already made plans, shipped karts with specific engine pkg, purchased plane tickets and hotel and car.
One last comment, now you have the ’05 Biland back to practically the same weight as last year while all the other engine pkgs are heavier than last year?? If I am not mistaken, I believe the ’05 Biland is the motor in’04 that was incredible. Can someone please explain that to me?
Tom
Speakings of TaG weights,
Can anyone inform me about the weights for the Supernationals? Are they going to be running the TAG groups seperately?? What is with the A and B group designations?
The last thing I was told by Todd B. was that the weight for the Sonik would be 415lbs for the masters. Now it looks as if the have it at 420lbs and split between A and B groups.
Thanks,
Tom
Rick,
No need to apologize, I thought we were just having a friendly discussion. If I made you think otherwise I want to apologize. About the Rotax,Sonik, Leopard,…etc. thing, I think Lee has proven that what ever he drives he is fast. He has kicked butt in both the Leopard and Sonik. I say good for Lee he takes this much more seriously than I do.
I think you will find this interesting. At the CSC race at Action, I raced the Sonik in the TAG Sr class. During qualifying, a leopard was in P1(Kyle Ray) and a Sonik (me) was in P2 0.651 secs slower than P1. The fastest qualifying lap for a Rotax was 1.398 secs behind P1 and .651 secs behind P2. In the heat race, the fastest leopard lap was 1.118 secs faster than the fastest Rotax lap. While the fastest Sonik lap was only 0.651 secs faster than the fastest Rotax lap.
What does this suggest? Is the ’05 Leopard just plain fast? Is it the combo Kyle/’05 Leopard/Maranello/Mile Hi karting tuned at Bandi? Is it the fact that Donel, Jeff and Greg were not racing Rotax that day? I know for a fact that the RBI/Sonik pkg in the right hands, not mine, would have been a factor for the win. I was just hanging on 😆
Anyways, I have rambled long enough. I still vote for the Touring car cure for the TAG series.
Rick,
I do not think any weights should be changed across te board either. I think it should be ran Touring car style. Also, unless I am mistaken at CSC race at Action, in qualifying Lee was P1 (Sonik) and I was P2(Rotax) and he was .817 secs quicker. In the heat race, Lee’s best lap was only .009 secs faster than my best lap. Sonik finished 1st and Rotax finished 2nd. Due to unforeseen circumstances :bs: , I was unable to compete in the final but I do not believe that the best Rotax was ever 1.71 secs slower than the best Sonik.
Tom
If you are talking about the last CSC race at IMI then our perception of close if very different. I recall the Rotax was 1.5 seconds, yes seconds, faster in qualifying.
I was just hoping to setup the kart before I got to the track and then only have to make small adjustments on Saturday. No matter what the track layout is I will be in the freshly scaled and balanced #9D Billett Performance Karting RBI/Sonik sponsored by A-C Financial. 😀
