TaG World Championships

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  • #51827
    Doug Welch
    Participant

    Todd

    Of course we all know that we can’t run pump gas because of the tech issues. Just don’t tell me you’re giving Rotax an advantage when you’re not. All you’re doing by allowing MS93 is not penalizing the Rotax. Period.

    Who cares what Stars is doing? I dont. Besides, track design is not much of a factor when all karts are running the same or basically the same engine package. The differences between a TM ICC or a Pavesi ICC are miniscule and track design will have little to no impact on who wins or loses. For whick class Stars is running will track design make any difference? If we were running ICC or stock moto, I could care less what the track is.

    However, with Tag, its entirely a different story. Just as we have seen people make engine purchasing decisions based on the track and weight where they will be running, so too it matters when where we decide to race. Why should anyone invest $2,000 to $3,000 to attend a race where they have zero chance to compete? Why do you think we didn’t go to New Castle? Already been there and we knew we couldn’t compete with the other engine packages at that track. Is it any surprise that there was only 1 Rotax there?

    Rotax is by far the largest number of Tag engines with Leopard a close second. As we saw last year, track design has a huge impact on which engine package is quick. So why wouldn’t you want to get the word out as quickly as possible so that people could make inteligent decisions on where to race and where not to race?

    You say trust me, a pro did it. I say fine, show me the money. But don’t ask me to trust you.

    As typical with you, you hear but you don’t listen.

    #51828
    stacey cook
    Participant

    :argue I’m going snowmobiling :cheers:

    #51829
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Doug,
    Thank you, I respect that post.

    I will tell you though. The track parity thing in ICC rages as hard now as in TAg. I know I’ve heard it all too much. lol

    My point with Stars was. MOst people consider them to be doing all the right things. We get bagged on becasue our track will be on line 3 weeks ahead. And I see no where, where someone is complaining they don’t have a layout for the National championship. Are there two standards? And if people expect more from us, I can accept that.

    This isn’t a bag on Stars. I’m making the point that people consider them the standard. According to that standard we are doing more then fine.

    You don’t have to believe me but, I swear on my life I have encouraged use of MS93 at as many races it’s possible for the benefit to Rotax. trust me the fuel order and logistics are much simplier on me if we only have two fuels. Having three makes it harder on us and the tech guys, but we do it to provide what we feel Rotax drivers want. AS you said they make up a large portion of a tag field.

    I feel some what encourage by this latest correspondance Doug. I will never ask you to take me at my word, although I thinks it’s good. But, I am still trying to prove we can do this job. IF I do and it’s a good job, just say so.

    #51830
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Stacey,
    It that one of them Rotax Snowmobiles? Is it sealed? Do you have the one that works better on hard pack or powder?

    I heard they only work well in the tight woods and get smoked in the flats. lol Those other guys need some weight put on.

    #51831
    Doug Welch
    Participant

    @Todd Bellew wrote:

    Published data. Has any set of Tag weights ever been based on true complete honest testing following the scientific method. NO. Should we let a person with years karting experience, been around the country and viewed many races, participating daily in rule making make a decision or a less qualified individual?

    When are you going to stop beating your chest and at the same time slapping your predessesor? The fact is Marty did extensive dyno testing and the dyno charts were in fact posted in the first Tag rule book posted on the SKUSA web site. Most of the manufacturers were deeply involved with the testing and many, including our own Brad Linkus made the trip to Washington to assist in the testing. Given the conditions of the time, that’s the most scientific testing we could have done.

    At the time Tag was so new, nobody, including you, had any idea how the dyno testing would relate to real world track time. But we had to start somewhere and dyno testing was certainly a good first base. But as we have all seen, there is a lot more to this than just power to weight. The characteristic of the engines are so different, I think its impossible for one set of weights to work at every track.

    We all knew that there would be adjustments as time went on and as more data filtered back in from the real world. Add to that manufactuerers and importers making improvements to engines, sanctioning bodies all viving for postion and control, its a wonder anyone is even interested in racing this class!

    #51832
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Doug,
    Your wrong You totally mis interpreted what I’m saying. You must assume I harbor issues over MArty I don’t. Marty never even entered my mind when I said that.

    OK so if you wanna go there. They dyno tested an after their testing the weight have moved three times. What good was that dyno info?

    And your correct there will be adjustments. This is it. IF TAg does not start moving toward simplicity, it’s more doomed than it already is.

    And sorry if I do happen to be qualified and that upsets people.

    #51833
    Curt Kistler
    Participant

    Why all the negitive feelings. This is the Supernationals. A one race format in Vegas with the best teams and drivers in the country. It has nothing to do with Stars, WKA, IKF or SKUSA points or standings. A three day kart race in the desert hosted by SKUSA. If there are any teams or drivers going there just to win, chances are they will be disapointed with anything less than that. It’s the hardest race to win I can think of.

    Set the track up anyway you want, spec any tire you want, any fuel you want is fine with us. We are going as a family to race, have fun, gamble a little, enjoy the company of people we do not get to see but once a year, and make our best attempt to finish up front.

    Remember when you used to have fun Doug? I do. It was when you showed up under these circumstances and expectations. You were our idols and we tried to pattern our game around yours. It’s just kart racing with our kids. Put that moto together and come have fun. You know the kid will do well and everything will work out fine. Leave the Rotax alone for this one. I have a feeling the Biland is going to come back and prove a point this year.

    Hope to see you there.
    Curt

    #51834
    Doug Welch
    Participant

    @Todd Bellew wrote:

    OK so if you wanna go there. They dyno tested an after their testing the weight have moved three times. What good was that dyno info?

    Now you read and don’t comprehend. Where were we going to start with Tag weights? Dyno testing was the quickest and least biased of any testing that SKUSA, remember it was SKUSA who was doing the testing, could have done at the time. EVERYBODY in the industry supported it. The results were published for anyone who wanted to look at it on SKUSA’s web site. It was the most extensive and comprehensive testing that anyone has done on Tag.

    But as we all know and we all knew at the time, the dyno testing would only be a STARTING point, not the final, end all, cast in stone forever weights. Only those off in some unreal world could have thought differently. The real test would only come once the rubber hit the track. As I hope you well know, the money to do independant track testing was not forth coming. Who wants to step up and do it now? What track should we use? Who’s paying for tires?

    What I object to is your comment that testing was not done when in fact it was and by your organization. The fact that there have been adjustments, so what? As we’ve seen, new engines have been introduced, engines have been updated and some just flat perform differently on the track than on the dyno. You somehow want to make the case that just because dyno testing wasn’t the end all, be all solution, you want to discredit it all together. I for one am glad changes were made and actually the latest weights you made aren’t bad at all.

    #51835
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Doug,
    Thanks for props on the weight system. The fact that people with the experience we have can’t see eye to eye on issues, shows passion for one and the problems Tag faces.

    Fortunetly, I think open discussion helps us all finally be able to see the trees. To clearly see what we are dealing with.

    I’m sure the ultimate solutions to keep Tag moving forward fall some where between both our ideas on the subject. And that’s the way it should.

    As many internet threads go intent is often lost, but I am grateful for our discourse.

    #51836
    Tom Dennin
    Participant

    Todd,

    The only way any of my suggestions would be an insult is if any of them were true! Everyone has heard the rumors about so and so on such board not allowing weights to be changed. It is an unfortunate thing to even have to think about. Never-the -less, the rumors are out there so it is in the realm of possibility. I started in a Tag kart 4yrs ago. I actually have two Rotax’s karts and a Sonik kart. I love the TaG concept and I have finally decided that the Supernationals will be my last TaG race. I will be there with a smile on my face no matter what the weights are. How could I not be 😀

    One thing you didn’t address is the ’05 Biland being at virtually the same weight as last years in the Supernationals while all other Tag engine/kart pkgs are heavier. I have to say Curt is spot on with his comments regarding the Biland. If I am wrong please correct me on this.

    Tom

    #51837

    @stacey cook wrote:

    :argue I’m going snowmobiling :cheers:

    Sledding sounds nice……you guys get snow out west there yet?

    #51838
    stacey cook
    Participant

    Chuck, we get around 25ft a year 30 minutes away so snowmobiling and Sking is awesome but down in the valley here in Grand Junction we can usually drive and play golf all winter…

    #51839

    @stacey cook wrote:

    Chuck, we get around 25ft a year 30 minutes away so snowmobiling and Sking is awesome but down in the valley here in Grand Junction we can usually drive and play golf all winter…

    Nice. my Cousins in Wisconsin are big-time sledders…….trying to get him and a couple of friends out west this year for some mountain sledding. We need to put long-tracks on a few of the sleds though.

    #51840
    stacey cook
    Participant

    Chuck, give me a call if you ever want to go… we usually head to Vail early in the year until the Mesa and the Flattops get good….

    #51841
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Todd,

    I’m curious about the track layout you referred to earlier. I’ve been to the SKUSA website and cannot find the layout there. Could you post the link? Thanks

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 33 total)
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