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Angel,
I will plead ignorance in the case of needle jets. Doesn’t the dellorto VSHB34 only have a needle not needle jets, as in plural? We have pilot jets, starter jet, main jet, atomizer, emulsion tube, slide, etc…I am assuming that the phrase changing of needle jets applies to other carbs than the OEM Rotax carb.
The other carbs have the ability to change out whatever they want without changing the OEM specified carb. The other OEM carbs have the ability to change on the fly. The Rotax is not competitive if run under the RMC rules. That is why “jetting is open”.From what I can tell or have discovered the other engine packages do not have a specific jetting package or internal parts only that the carb must be the OEM carb as supplied by the manufacturer. I have seen many different setups in the other carbs. There is not anything specific other than the carb is not polished or machined.
Therefore, it is my opinion, all carbs in the TAG series can and should experiment and change out whatever they want without polishing or machining there respective OEM carb. If anyone thinks this is not the case, they are just fooling themselves.
On last thing, have you noticed that there is no conversation about any of the other OEM carbs? Seems odd to me. It is not like the Dellorto is the only one. The only reason this becomes a discussion is because the Rotax has a set of original carb rules that only apply to the RMC. They should no way be applied to the TAG series. We have a Rotax series that I can run.
One other thing, if the Rotax engine weights are based on the dyno tests that were run by TAGUSA or SKUSA. I know for a fact that the Rotax was dyno’ed with a CIK air box two 22mm holes. If you try to run the CIK air box with only changing the main jet it will not work. Therefore, TAGUSA or SKUSA had to change out other parts in the carb and I am sure they did not do any polishing or machining. 😀
Tom
Angel,
It is widely accepted that all the parts you mentioned are jetting tools (ie. fuel metering devices). It seems pretty straight forward to me that any part that can be removed from the carb can be changed. No where does the TAGUSA rules with regards to the carb. direct you back to the Rotax rules. If I have missed where that is spelled out please show me. In fact the carb. rule is the same for all engine combinations. It is generic to encompass all the diferent carbs.
TAGUSA/SKUSA 2005
20.3.10.3 Carburetors: OEM as supplied from the engine manufactureer. Jetting is open. You may install washers to the OEM needle jets for the purpose of tuning. The means that the throttle connect is non-tech, but you must use the OEM arm and shaft assembly.
All this says is that a Rotax must use the Dellorto VSHB34 carb. Other than that all and any fuel metering components(ie. jetting)are alterable with out machining any permanent part of the carb itself
Heck, I still believe, inspite of what Doug Welch has said, that the cap and spring are interchangeable. Until it is in writing, open jetting means anything that can effect the fuel metering is fair game and legal to experiment with.
Just a side note, if Doug was the head tech official for the CSC and stated that the cap and spring or whatever else were off limits then I would put back on my Rotax cap and spring, but until the word comes down I will keep it the way I have it. I will always follow the rules, but I can not resist experimenting within the rules. It must have to do with my profession. 😀
Tom
It would only be two Saturdays and you wouldn’t absolutely have to take off work to race on Sat. Think of it as a warm up for the CSC race on the following Sunday. It would be fun and give us Rotax’s some extra practice time on the track for Sunday’s CSC races.
Also, I recall lots of people were there on Thursday evening and practicing Fri and Sat last year
Tom
Stacey, I am coping this from the other thread.
How about this for an idea?
What about RMC on the Saturday before the Sunday CSC dates? Do not have qualifying and run two heat races instead. The first race line up would be done by drawing numbers and the second heat would be inverted from the first and then total your position and base the final off of those totals. The one with the least total would be the pole and so on.
I believe there would be 4 classes: mini max, jr, int, master. Run mini and jr seperate and int and mstr together that way there would only be six heat races. The heat races should take no longer than two hours. There could be individual finals for each of the four classes if need be. The finals should take no longer than an hour and a half.
If my hypothesis is correct, we could start the first heat race at 8:00 am sharp and be done by no later than 11:30am. This would leave plenty of time to test and tune for the CSC race the following day.
just a thought,
Tom
I would be ther for sure. :cheers:
Stacey,
Is the Sat. morning before each CSC race out of the question? I think in the long run it would make you money. Then race all the others as planned with the club races.
I promise I will not bug about this again, 😀
Tom
Doug,
Thanks for talking to Marty about that issue. Can we get it in official form?
20.3.10.3 Carburetors: OEM as supplied from the engine manufactureer. Jetting is open. You may install washers to the OEM needle jets for the purpose of tuning. The means that the throttle connect is non-tech, but you must use the OEM arm and shaft assembly.
So what does the little phrase, “The means that the throttle connects is non-tech” mean? To me that says, elbow, cap, spring, throttle cable are all non-tech. The carb rule expanded itself from the 2004 rules.
It really doesn’t matter one way or another for me. I do not see it as anything other than a time saving device. I never thought it had a tuning effect. If anything, it would be a detriment to change out the Rotax cap due to the large size of the Rotax black cap.
Can we get in writing via e-mail from a SKUSA official that the cap & spring are both tech items and must be OEM?
Just as Charles stated, I wish it would just say it plain and clear.
Tom
I already illustrated how a date change does not interfere with any Rotax Max Challenge series dates for that particular span of time in April. Stacey seemed willing.
I agree, the more karts the better. Also, it starts the CSC series sooner which at this time of the year sounds oh so much better. Drivers still better use their one drop wisely.
Tom
Rotax driver
Rich,
CRE has an RMC race Apr 3 and next on May 1st. I believe these dates are correct. So if the race was moved to the 17th then you could attend the April 10th race, which is the 1st RMC race at GJMS, leave your trailer and equipment in GJ and drive back over the next weekend.
Sounds good to me if I could find a secure place to leave my trailer with all my karting equipment.
Tom
One other thing, if I happen to say something that doesn’t make sense regarding the carb and its functioning components remember that I am still learning and please let me know. Otherwise, I will never know. 😀
Tom
Here is the worst answer I can give you, but the only one that I have. I was told the slide is considered a jet and all across the good ole USA karters are changing the slide. The slide effects the air flow which in turn effects the fuel metering. The rules for TAGUSA consider the slide a tunable/changable part. I do not think there has been any questioning of that issue. :sun:
I will tell you that I know very little about the carb and what exactly each individual component does, but I have been investigating, researching, and learning over the winter.
Tom
Charles,
It looks pretty obvious from the new SKUSA/TAGUSA rules that the cap along with every other thing that has to do with fuel metering is legal to change. The 2005 rule is a little more explanitory than it was in 2004. Never-the-less, the verbage in the carb rule leaves much to be desired!
This will tell you how very little I use to know about a carb. About a year ago, Accelereation karting explained to me that the slide is a jet before then I had no idea that it could even be changed or that there was something to change it too. 😯
Tom
Charles,
I do not believe that what has been said is correct.
As per the TAGUSA rules section “2.2. CARBURETORS – As supplied from the manufacturer, jetting open.”
My understanding was that the body of the carburetor must not be physically altered. Other than that the carb is open. The original cap and spring for the Rotax is a joke. That big spring and cap that if you turn to hard on it will crack. Mine cracked for no apparent reason at all.
My understanding is that the cap, spring, slide, the sleeve which the slide fits, atomizer, emulsion tube, inner pilot jet, outer pilot jet, floats, needles, starter jet ( I am not sure if that is what it is called), and main jet can be altered. In other words anything that attaches to the carb and that would include the cap.
Tom
PS-> Just another thought, if everyone agrees that changing the slide is within the rules then wouldn’t the slide, spring and cap be all one part
(ie. “the slide”) . They are sold as one unit and once more they were designed to go together. I take this as simply a jet change which is within the rules.Remember this, I ask all of these question so I can be sure to be within the rules. I do not believe in using ignorance as an excuse.
Stacey,
What is wrong with Sat. morning for the RMC? I believe that it would leave almost eight hours for test and tune later that day.
I think it would make a point that it pays to own a Rotax. 😀 It would encourage more people to sign up and run the RMAX series at GJMS and make it more affordable as Rich has pointed out in the long run. :cheers:
If you run them together, then what should those karters who want to score maximum points for both the CSC and RMC do? You either set your kart to run RMC rules and be at a disadvantage to the other TAG karts or run TAGUSA/SKUSA rules and earn no RMC points. :idn:
Saturday seems to make the most sense. :sun:
Tom
