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To All,
The insanity that you are experiencing is the very reason the two major sanctioning bodies, WKA & IKF have required that the class be run as a non competitive, educational, exhibition class…..but after 40 plus years in business, what do they know? A class that should only be about learning and fun has been turned in to a nightmare. It should also be taken back to club level to maintain the kids future interest in the sport…..eight hours at the track is an eternity to a five or six year old.
I applaud the track owners efforts to solve the problem but it isn’t necessary to tear the engines down in an effort to make them equal. We’ve had three years of competition with sealed box stock Comer 80’s in our Junior program and they have been spot on out of the box. What should make the Comer 50 any different? The only differences in competition have been age, experience and talent.
I totally agree with the assessment that there has been one party behind the unrest and destruction of a potentially exciting and fun class for all. CRE will be offering a Junior Driver Developement Racing Series in 2006 and I can guarantee you Scott Smith WILL NOT be involved. He was banned from participation at CRE in 2004……we learned our lesson early and well.The Rotax engine passport should not be the concern as it is just a paper document that can be lost or altered and they don’t necessarily track the service work on a particular engine. I have yet to see indepth information regarding the service work on any passport that has passed through our shop.
The seal should not be the focus of concern unless it has been mistakenly or fraudulently been applied to a Rotax engine that has not been designated for competition in the United States. Rotax has designated specific engine serial numbers to various competing RMC countries around the world to protect the interests of the sponsors and investors in the International Rotax Challenge. SSC Racing has proprietory rights to the use of Rotax engines in Challenge competition within the continental United States to protect the integrity of the series.
What Tim George hasn’t mentioned is that he has brought in Rotax engines from accross the border or over the oceans that are legal for American TaG racing because the sanctioning bodies are not observing the sanctity of the SSC’ Rotax seals but are illegal in the American Rotax Challenge because they are foreign engines not designated for use in the American Challenge by their engine serial number.
I would tend to think that the value of these engines are less because they can only be used in TaG competition in the United States and can not be legally sealed for RMC competition. American Rotax racers have more than one venue in which to race which has to be of greater value.
The Rotax engine serial number should be the number one concern if you want the full benefits of being an American Rotax racer.Dan,
There are six to eight locals that are interested in forming a spec 125 class for the 06 season…….please call 719-749-9840 for further information and local contacts.
We have offered to run a 125 exhibition class race for those interested over the remaining events of the 05 season.Jim,
Apparently you still haven’t grasped the purpose of the seal in the Rotax program and the one reason that the RMC is not plagued with the continued technical scandals of the TaG program. First TaG had to deal with Sonic suitcase motors, then Biland suitcase motors and now the Leopard scam……all because there are no seals and no integrity in the program. You don’t hear RMC – Rotax racers constantly complaining about cheating within the RMC because they respect the integrity of the seal.
The seal is there to assure the Rotax racer that the engines have been manufactured, assembled and serviced to strict technical guidelines that remain within OEM specifications. The seal and the cost of replacing it is also there as a deterent to those who lack the integrity to race within the rules of a spec racing program. Rotax service centers are held to very high standards and risk their business and reputations to participate in the RMC. TaG has already shown us over the last two years that a gentlemans agreement is not going to stop those who insist on a unfair advantage.
The seal should assure promoters outside of the RMC that the engines are within universal specifications and that the competitor lacks the opportunity to make modifications to the cylinder and crankcase. All of the potential performance gains in a Rotax engine are external and should be open to total scutiny. A tech inspector, outside of the RMC is wasting his time and the competitors money to break a Rotax seal; it is inappropriate and punitive.
The Rotax engine was the first TaG package on the market …..long before there was a TaGUSA promotion. TaGUSA adopted the Rotax in to TaG competition knowing and acknowledging that is a sealed engine with competition opportunities outside of TaG competition. So why should it’s position within TaG competition anywhere in the country change?
At least 60% or better of the current CSC TaG classes are Rotaxes……..do you really want to alienate the foundation of the TaG program?
” The Seal IS the Deal !!”
BTW – CRE Motorsports is proud to be an “authorized” Rotax service center, one of only two on the front range. Zach….we will galdly inspect and reseal your engine FREE of charge. Please contact us if we can help out…….Hotwheels,
You don’t change the spots on a leopard or the stripes on a zebra…….you were selfish, self centered and made a TOTAL fool out of yourself at CRE and you’ve carried your spots and stripes with you to the CSC. You’ve got to be crazy not to think that the good folks in the CSC haven’t already seen the spots and stripes for themselves; I’m sure they know what their dealing with by now.
By the way most of the racers and their families that were here to endure and were embarassed by your childish behavior are still here supporting the effort to build our communities karting program.
I hope Bob has gotten the well intended message about scurilous lies and gossip……..you are the last person to preach about being disgusted with lies, gossip and backstabbing; the garbage that you’ve been spewing over the last two years borders on slander.
Once again, I would ask that now that you’ve found Nervana that you would give up the ghost and go on about your business. Enjoy kart racing with your son and family and drop the slander against CRE. I hope you understand this well intended message.Blink,
Since you want to open up Pandora’s box……..and of course you’ve continued to run your mouth about your private business by blaming the racers that were very seriously injuried in an accident that should have never happened………why don’t you tell the public what you paid the plaintiff’s to keep the case from going to court? Your concerns weren’t for the health and welfare of your patrons but your bottomline as usual……..remember ” If Moneys Involved” Motorsports? Its unfortunate that the public can’t read your deposition as I’m sure you have shared mine with others, just so that they could get an insite on just how little regard you have for anyone else but yourself and your money machine. Your expert witness wasn’t a kart racer and all the video of a safe track design and operation, if it existed, wasn’t going to save you from your own very smug deposition. You had a very savvy attorney that saved your Money Machine by convincing you to settle less than thirty days before it went to court. Remember your insurance company denied the claim……..
I was subpoenaed in to the case as a witness as were several others who held the same concerns as I did. If the plaintiffs hadn’t had the courage and the few that got involved when they did you would still be running one of the most dangerous karting operations in the country. Speed is fun but it also can kill……….and sooner or later you are knowingly, by your own words in your deposition, going to kill someone. An amusement park manager was convicted within the last two weeks for felony negligence because he knew there were hazardous conditions that could injury the public and he took no actions to avoid it.
The end result of the lawsuit is that you were forced to address safety issues that you weren’t concerned about and the plaintiff’s walked away with a tidy sum, I’m sure. If for no other reason IMI is now a somewhat safer facility now than it was a year ago even though you still have competitors giving you suggestions on how to make it safer. NOBODY was trying to shut you down……just get your attention about public safety.
Your case was settled last December and this is the first that I’ve have openly mentioned it in public and ironicly it is in response to your own big mouth. What was in my deposition was priviledged information that you’ve tried to use the last year to put me out of business and now YOU have made it public and it isn’t private anymore. I think I still have my copy of your deposition………
I hate to say it again……..but as Paul Harvey says….”now you know the other side of the story.”Bob,
Now that you’ve established that you are really a stand up kind of guy……..as Paul Harvey would say ” Now here is the rest of the story……
You, your son Ron and I believe it was your daughter were all cordially welcomed and treated fairly at the one Rotax Challenge event that you attended at CRE. As you might remember you unfortunately brought a TaG prepared Rotax to compete in the Challenge event which must be run separately from other classes. I was surprised at your engine preparation given the fact that your sponsor was a Rotax distributor. Not having any other TaG class competitors entered, we placed Ron in a mixed class of shifters for the experience and recognized him after the event as our first TaG class competitor. I complimented you on Ron’s ability and told you that he would be competitive in the RMC Challenge if you would bring his engine back to RMC specs. We enjoyed having you folks visit with us and looked forward to Ron competing in the Rotax Challenge, once again given the fact that your sponsor was a Rotax distributor. Unfortunately, I’ve only seen you briefly one time since that visit.
As to your WKA membership; you didn’t complete the application, Ron didn’t sign the releases and you didn’t pay the annual membership fee to WKA or for Ron’s RMC membership. Ron was entered as a day member, at CRE’s expense, in the WKA race recap.
A stand up kind of guy would have either called or dropped an email regarding their WKA membership and what mechanical requirements were necessary to compete in the Rotax Challenge or regarding any complaints that they had rather than spread scurilous lies and gossip about they way they were treated and cheated at CRE. Lies and cheap gossip never resolves a persons issues.
EVERY competitor and this includes good ole JB, have entered the gates at CRE have been cordially welcomed, treated respectfully, honestly and fairly until they’ve shown themselves to be dishonest,untrustworthy or unable to relate with the membership or the established rules and regulations……unfortunately there have been a few over the years. As a track owner and promoter I want every competitor to have a good time, in a safe and honest program with the opportunity to achieve their personal best in the sport.
Unfortunately lies and gossip become perception and perception becomes the truth to those who aren’t willing to investiagte for themselves. CRE openly welcomes ALL that drive through our gates to play or compete.
Bob……as a stand up kind of guy,I’m sure you can understand the harm of empty lies and gossip. If you ever have any questions or concerns please call 719-749-9840 or drop me an email at [email protected]. This invitation stands for any others who may have a misconception as to the program at CRE.
You and your family are always cordially welcomed at CRE Motorsports.Blink,
There you go again……gloating about medocrity.
Once again you’ve clearly told the karting community what comes first at ” If Moneys Involved” Motorsports. The public giveth and the public is taking it away………
So much for diplomacy……….Blink,
No one’s blowing a gasket………just giving you numbers that you apparently can’t deal with. The numbers don’t lie….numbers that should embarass you, not give you cause to gloat.
Seems that you can dish it out………but you can’t take it.Blink,
You need to find some informants that can count, spell and write an intelligent sentence. Rotax Challenge participation numbers are down but so are the TaG, CSC and IMI numbers. The CRE Rotax Challenge has had sixteen total entries in the each of the first two events.
It seems to me that rather than worry about the health of the CRE program you should be looking to the dramatic downturn of your program over the last three seasons…..your numbers indicated that you averaged 118 racers per event in 2002 and as of yesterday you are now averaging less than 65. I’m not satisfied with our participation numbers but I don’t think you have much to brag about given the large population base in your market.
CRE is averaging 5.28 racers per 100,000 population base in a community of 530,000……..IMI’s average,as of yesterdays results is 2.7 racers out of a population base that exceeds 2.4 MILLION ! Neither number is any reason to brag and only points out the unreasonable division and lack of co-operation between the front range track owners and the lack of marketing being done to bring new racers to the sport.
I’m not satisfied with our participation but at least I’m not gloating about our mediocrity………Dennis Dyer, Donna and Amy Lessor, Cris andGunter DeSanti spent Sunday at the AMA races being held at PPIR promoting not just CRE but our sport in the state. We will continue to promote our sport in our market all through the season. I sent potential Denverite racers your way yesterday. Exactly what are you doing to improve karting in your market outside of constantly slamming someone else’s best efforts in another community? Why do you feel that all kart racers on the front range of Colorado are your sole domain?…..and that they should only be racing at IMI.
Rich Vito is a great guy and I appreciate him participating in the Rotax Challenge but it is a long and dangerous drive from Longmont………….and IMI is a long and dangerous drive from Colorado Springs for Southern Colorado racers. So why should Southern Colorado racers be forced to travel north of Denver, twice a month to race just because you feel that you are the only one in the state that can put on an event?
The health and future of our sport will not turn around until you step down off of your horse and start giving back to the karting community, promoting our sport in a positive light and co-operating with other businessmen involved in Colorado karting. Our sport is not healthy right now and is in fact dwindling in numbers. You have a vested interest in co-operation.I have the 2005 WKA Rulebook and Tech Manual setting on my desk as I respond to this. The text is very precise and drawn out with diagrams,charts and photograhs. You name the class and there is a page to go to for information regarding the classes chassis specifications and another page or pages that cover the engine specifications from the Kids Kart Comer 50/51 to the 125 Moto & ICC shifter engines and everything in between. Once chassis and engine specifcations are defined the regions are given the latitude to make adjustments to class structures that meet their needs; ie. heavy, senior classes ( Local Options) that can be combined with a regions national class structure. All racing procedures and format are also defined. WKA is not scrambling to meet your needs they have already been addressed.
The fact is that up until 2005 SKUSA has been known as the premier shifter kart promoting organization and not a national shifter kart sanctioning and insuring body. SKUSA promoted and held its own events on the national and somewhat limited regional level. I am not trying to be insulting but the fact is that since SKUSA dropped the national Pro-Moto Tour because of a lack of racer support they are trying to reinvent themselves in to a national sanctioning body.If SKUSA had a millon dollars and a staff of one hundred to help them catch up to the CSC’s needs today and this coming spring, they would still be better than 30 years behind WKA’ s developement and program.
The last thing our sport needs in this country is another fledgling national sanctioning body to further fragment the sport and confuse the public. Karting is highly respected and is growing leaps and bounds internationally because their programs are nationalized, structured and simple to understand. You only have to look to Canada, Mexico and South America to find international examples……..not accross the oceans.
WKA offers not only the Rules and Technical specifications but insures the events with the same carrier as IKF,KART and SKUSA……..American Specialties. Insuring kart racing over the last eight to ten years has shrunk to only two or three onshore carriers because of the dramatic increase in injury and death claims. WKA already has a highly developed program of regional and national championships that are growing as their influence grows from shore to shore…….Manufacturers Cup, Gold Cup, Regional Tours ( ie,Florida,Oklahoma/Texas), North American Karting Champinships, Rock Island Grand Prix, Daytona Kart Week. A WKA member can race by national standards at a club event and never leave their hometown or they can become involved Regional Series between states, in state tours (CSC) or in national championship tours ( Stars of Karting) and the National Championship events that are currently held at Charlotte Motor Speedway and Daytona…..and by the way these events are promoted by WKA from coast to coast.
WKA can meet the CSC’s and Colorado kartings needs 100%………today.Karterdad,
The Stars of Karting is not a national sanctioning body. It is a national tour that is sanctioned and insured by WKA and complies with WKA’s national standards. You are a WKA member if you are participating in a Stars tour events. Your WKA membership gives you the opportunity to participate on the club level, or in regional tours such as the new Southwestern Tour formed in Oklahoma and Texas or on the national level with the Stars of Karting tour. The WKA rulebook and tech manual are the same in Grand Junction and at the Oklahoma Motorsports Complex.J.B.,
I was just a regional co-ordinator for IKF. It wasn’t my responsiblity to “sanction” your track. As the IKF co-ordinator it was my responsibilty to inform regional tracks of the benefits of IKF participation and then co-ordinate activities between IKF tracks in the region. All of the Colorado track owners are aware of IKF & WKA and have the means to contact them regarding sanctioning. I know that IKF sent out “track packs”, regarding affiliation, to all of the Colorado tracks. It is my underdstanding that Randy Kugler of WKA had discussions with a local promoter last season. I had no authority over regional tracks as an IKF co-ordinator….you can call the IKF office to confirm that.
There’s nothing self serving about asking other state tracks to become affiliated with the same NATIONAL sanctioning body. CRE has been the only nationally afffiliated track in the state over the last five years….encouraging other tracks owners to become affiliated with the same organization would make CRE only one of the states five nationally sanctioned facilities.How is that self serving?
CRE’s current affiliation with WKA does not give us any authority over any other facility and that isn’t the purpose of sanctioning. I am NOT a WKA official of any type. I am not seeking any kind of office or authority.
As a track owner I am just suggesting a way that all five of the states tracks can work together by sharing the same rulebook, tech manual and insuring body that has no bias towards any of the facilities involved….both the track owners and the competitors benefit from mutual communication and co-operation. The effort is to make the sport simplier and easier to understand for the racer and to have uniformity amongst the tracks serving the public. The same rulebook, tech manual and insuring body in Grand junction,Denver, Colorado Springs, Los angeles, Boston, Miami, Las Vegas……
J.B. there are no insults intended in this response.There are soon to be FIVE tracks in the state and the state doesn’t have significantly more racers today than we did five years ago. The circumstance calls for communication and co-operation between not only the track owners/promoters but the various kart shops and the racers.Hotwheels,
Neither the IKF or WKA manual REQUIRES that the Comer K80 be blueprinted to compete at the club level. Your parents were in agreement with the Egans, Hawkins,Ullstroms,Rosses,Whetstones,Sullivans,Christensens
before the beginning of the 2003 season that the class would be run at CRE as a boxstock class in an effort to keep the class affordable. It wasn’t until the Stars program came to town and well after the 03 season started that you demanded that the entire class be required to blueprint their engines because it was YOUR desire to run on the Stars tour. You were absolutely oblivious to the concerns and cost to the other seven families to meet your demands and went to extreme measures to get your way and made an ass out of yourself in the process. Your actions and attitude had you banned at CRE……and nowyou are howling about the CSC program?You got what you asked for. Given your track record this summer in the CSC you should probably be carefull of what you ask for!
CRE was in full compliance with the boxstock Comer Jr.I class and the local option to use the Vevey pipe.
I resigned my position with the IKF because the organization wasn’t designed to promote kart racing accross the country and was not keeping up with the demands and growth of our sport. The WKA is growing in leaps and bounds and is in a future position to not only sanction and insure our sport but to promote and unite it from coast to coast.Greg,
I thought the purpose of the CSC Senior 4 cycle class was to lump all of the five or six engines listed in to one class and then weight handicap to achieve a competitve balance.Its obvious that that didn’t work because you had at least three racers that believed the WF would be competitive with the L.M.Animal with a weight handicap.
The limited mod Animal is just like any other over built 4 cycle; fast, expensive and unreliable. The limited mod Animal will just result in fewer racers in the Senior 4 cycle class because of cost and unreliablity. Please understand I am an old four cycle racer and have had considerable experience so this isn’t meant as a put down…..
If it is just about going fast and not about racing and competition why not invest in a TaG or shifter? You can have a Rotax or Leopard for the cost of the two or three L.M. Animals that you will waste in one season.
