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I’m a little confused as to why Dennis the Tech Director for SKUSA CSC at the I.M.I. event this past weekend would want to teardown a sealed Rotax motor that was sealed by SSC, the importer for this engine package. It seems absolutely ludicrous to me that they would do that and not offer a dime toward having the motor resealed. He didn’t even call the gentleman from Mile High Karting in to observe the engine teardown so we wouldn’t have to pay $250.00 to $500.00 dollars to have it completely inspected and resealed. In my opinion, that is not the proper way of doing things.
What about the rest of you Rotax racers? What do you think?
Sincerely.
Tim J. George—Father of the Seth Chapa #84 Tag Senior
Superkarts! USA is not a “seal” series. This means we don’t recognize the seal. Generally, it is proof, but SKUSA officials do hold the right to cut a seal and inspect the motor.
TAG USA and WKA I know for sure doesn’t recognize the seal, I believe so with IKF also.
The only places where seals are necessary are Rotax Official events.
Here’s the plus side. You don’t have to have your engine sealed to come race with SKUSA. No expense to rebuild your motor yourself.
Thank You,
Todd Bellew
Superkarts! USA
Director of Race OperationsGee, it could be that it was the only Rotax that has ever run a 53 second lap, which was about a second faster than any other Rotax has ever turned and it was on a hot day. Why should any engine be allowed a free pass on tech just because it has a seal? It could also be that Dennis is the tech director and that is his job and there is no policy at any track I know of to pay for resealing.
So, not being able to attend due to foot surgery, I am curious. Was the engine found to be illegal?
Duff
@blink wrote:
Gee, it could be that it was the only Rotax that has ever run a 53 second lap,
Jeff welch ran a 53.788 in qualifying last year at the second CSC race at IMI (round 6) And if I recall it wasn’t a cool day.
I thought this was straightened out over a year ago when Doug Welch raised the issue. (http://www.thecoloradokarter.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=661&highlight=explaination). As was discussed then, and what people seem to have conveniently forgotten, is that it costs beaucoup bucks to have a motor resealed after it’s been opened by someone other than a certified Rotax dealer.
Todd, some of us race in the RMC as well as CSC, so it’s not an option to just reseal it ourselves.
I thought we’d reached an agreement that if someone wanted to protest a sealed motor (and my guess is that this would apply to EasyKarts as well), the protest fee would have to include the cost of dealing with resealing. Otherwise we could have a problem, because most of us Rotaxians aren’t going to be willing to shell out $250 – 400 for a plastic trophy. That makes it awfully tempting for BS protests.
As Doug and others said last summer, there are options. There’s clearly no problem with teching as long as it doesn’t disturb the seal. Or if there’s really a good reason to open it up, there could be a provision for a certified Rotax service center to either do the tech, or to be there to witness the seal breakage and then re-seal it. Last year Brad said he was going to get certified and could do that. My understanding is that never happened. But Critical Zone is a certified service center if the Cooks would be willing to reseal. From Tim’s post, apparently the same is true for Mile High Karting?
Joe brings up a good point, The seal should be good enough and if it isn’t then someone should help with the cost of resealing it. I have rebuilt and sealed both of Joe’s motors this year and would stand behind anything that we do. We would offer our time to reseal any motor that is certified by us (excluding parts) for free as long as the driver being protested receives the protest fee when found in compliance…
@Todd Bellew wrote:
Superkarts! USA is not a “seal” series. Director of Race Operations
That kid should get his seal paid for immediately. I can’t believe you cost a kid $300 bucks just because someone actually thought an authorized Rotax dealer would “build” a motor and cheat by putting a seal on it. NO ROTAX DEALER WOULD EVER DO THAT!!
Not to mention for some local series to boot!
Why the heck in the spirit of GOOD COMMON SENCE wouldn’t you allow the seal? ROTAX and Easykarts’ seals GUARANTEE the motor isn’t monkeyed with!
I feel for you Tim G. And Seth…….what a bunch of B.S.
Yeah well streets2tracker calm yourself young Padawan, there is much to be learned about the about the Dark side.
:lame
I agree with Joe.
Rotaxes are at a disadvantage if it means we have to pay $300-400 everytime a frivolous protest is filed. One of the main reasons I bought a Rotax is that it can be run in both TaG and RMax, so I need to keep it sealed. None of the other TaG motors have this problem hanging over them. I, too, thought this was solved last summer.
Charles
Jeff did run a 53.7 last year, Greg ran a 53.6 this year. We regularly run in the high 53s with a 2 year old shifter chassis. If we used a newer 100 cc kart, low 53s here we come. It was posted here on this site this spring that if a sealed engine were to be torn down, all measures possible to rembusing the racer for re-sealing costs, including a fee equal to the costs of re-sealing the engine would be assessed. Was this done?
It should not be surprising to anyone who has half a brain that a Rotax will be the fastest TaG package at IMI. When compared to the other engines, the Rotax develops more hp. This is well documented by both Tag USA and WKA on several ocasions. However, the Rotax has a very limited total power band, less than 6,000 rpm. The other engines have at least an 8,000 rpm band with some upwards of 10,000 to 11,000 rpm.
What this means is that if the track has a slow corner relative to the longest straight, those engines with a wide power band will have the advantage. When we were at New Castle, it wan’t even close between the Sonics and the rest of us. They had us (Rotax and Leopard) by over 1 second. We were 1,000 rpm below our power band off the slow corners yet we were out of gear 3/4 down the straights. We lost 20 kart lengths every lap. Greg was able to run very close (.1 and passing him at one point) to the track owner in his Leopard (Mark Dismore Jr, multi time WKA national champion). Give us as much time on that track as the owner has, I think we could run dead even with him. However, all the karts in the front will be Sonics.
IMI is the exact opposite, it has no slow corners relative to the straight. The Rotax uses only 4,000 rpm of its band. At IMI, we can run the Rotax in its sweet spot all the way around. Since we run less weight and have more power, the Rotax is king there. Given the nature of IMI, the Rotax will always be the fastest engine there under the current rules and it will be fastest by a lot.
At Grand Junction, its much closer in that the Rotax has to use all its power band plus a little over rev. That is why the Rotax is still quickest, but its much closer. The other engines are only a few tenths back. This spring, the top 6 were covered by only a few tenths. Of all the tracks we have raced at, GJ is the most fair to the various engine packages.
Bandimere is the exact opposite. It has two very slow corners and two long straights. The Rotax will be .5 a second behind a Leopard there. If a quality Sonic showed up, it would crush us all by a full second.
I was at Badger raceway this past weekend. While completely different from any thing we have around here (but it did remind me a bit of CRE) It was all Sonic. With the light weights WKA runs, the Sonics put on a show. The two Rotaxes were dead last, a full second off the pace and it had nothing to do with driver. There was a Leopard keeping up with them, but it had a really good driver and the two Sonics kept screwing up trying to take the point from each other.
The point of all this is that if a person gets out and does a little investigation, looks at other tracks and other races, they will see not every engine will be competitve at every track. The engines are too different in their basic power delivery characteristics. To come up with a single set of weights that work eveyrwhere is impossible.
I am dissapointed to see SKUSA take such a negative attitude toward its racers. I would have hoped that they would try to work with various sanctioning bodies to help Tag move forward. After all, it has so few members and by far their largest group is right here in Colorado. Since most are recreational type racers working on a very limited budget, I would think they would try to find a way to minimize costs for the racer, not increase them. If they had $350-$500 to stuff in their engines every weekend, they would race ICC shifters. I know we would.
I don’t have a basic problem with them wanting to break a seal, for either Rotax, Biland or EasyKart, it’s just they should make an effort to minimize a racers expense to put it back together. The CSC earlier announced they would this year. Having a certifed dealer on hand to re-seal, or sending it off to a certified center would be appropreate. To do other wise SKUSA is sending a simple message, if you have a sealed motor, don’t race with us.
However, with all the political BS I see going on now, TaG is doomed after this year, if not already. WKA will come out with rules next year to blueprint the engines. That will split the TaG world right down the middle. WKA will become a two engine, high costs class, Sonic and Leopard. SKUSA has yet to give a clear direction of what its going to do and IKF wants to work with TagUSA but that may be tough once WKA breaks off.
Bottom line, RMax will rise again for all the reasons it became the most popular Tag package. Especially since there will be very positive changes in the Rotax challange format next year. Look for the Rotax guys to drop the Tag crap and do Rotax only events. I know thats where we will end up if things go as I think they will.
:soap
And this my friends is why TAG is being ruined. Just because Seth ran great at IMI he has a sealed cheater motor?? :idn: No one mentioned that Roman in TAG master (30lbs heavier) on a Rotax ran a 54.4 what an awesome lap. Everyone who runs TAG knows that IMI is a Rotax track.
Todd maybe SKUSA should rethink its rules. And if that is out of the question then SKUSA should pick up the tab when the sealed engine is found to be legal. I am betting that this would change SKUSA rules. Has a sealed Rotax ever been found to be illegal with regards to what is behind the seal??? Also, one of the main bonuses of having a rotax is being able to run both the RMC and TAG races. Take that away and you lose many quality rotax drivers across the country.
This is coming from some one who owns two rotaxs karts and a sonik kart. I knew going into yesterdays event at IMI that the rotax was fast and I even contemplated running the rotax, but I knew running the sonik would be a great challenge. I went for the challenge and had a great time competing. Thanks to all the TAG master drivers for a clean competitive run. :cheers:
I was told today that the engine in question was not torn down and there is not a protest in the works. Quit your whinning. My point is if you choose to run a sealed engine in a class that does not require seals then you take the risk of the tech director wanting to open it up since we are using SKUSA rules. If the Rotax has such an advantage over all the other engines in the class at IMI and GJMS then the weights should be set different for each track to make it fair. I will tell all of you that the weights for all the TAG classes for the IMI series will be adjusted for this disparity before the next race. I agree with Doug that if everything stays the same it will be a two engine class and you can see that by the type of engines that have quit running the CSC series. I would welcome any comments as to how the weights should be set for each engine at IMI to even the field. The way it is right now the Leopards have the advantage in TAG Junior and the Rotax has the advantage in the senior and masters class, this is obvious. So what should we do about it?
Honestly….your idea is a pretty damn good one. Weights should be adjusted to make everything even.
I think personally with all the dyno sheets and work out there, it should come down to weight/horsepower ratio…….
That way all of the motors are pretty much exactly the same, with only gearing and setup being of the biggest difference (obviously powerband will have something to do with it as well, but not nearly as much).
@Ben Schermerhorn wrote:
Yeah well streets2tracker calm yourself young Padawan, there is much to be learned about the about the Dark side.
:lame
How much of your OWN money do you spend racing?
I wouldn’t bitch but i don’t have my dad stuffing money into a shifter for me. Sorry to complain. Life sucks. Then you die.
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