Forum Replies Created
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Rich
What do we do if a guy buys an XYZ motor and it turns out to be a real POS. Broken cranks, no parts availabilty, etc, etc. Do we tell him he has to keep throwing money down a rat hole or that it sucks to be you? We had this same discusion last year about switching motors for different tracks and while we didn’t have a solution, but it wasn’t a problem last year either. What about one change per year?
Charles brings up a very real and potential problem. We all know that certain motors are better at certain tracks. On the other side, I would hate to penalize the guy who bought the wrong motor and now he can’t switch. For example, a guy who buys a certain engine and then after the season starts he finds that it’s either unreliable or support is lacking, I would hate to force the racer to keep going with the same POS or quit.
We should allow one change per season. After the switch, no going back.
We clearly have too many shifter classes. I would break it down a little differently with 3 classes. For 2006, I would do one stock moto class at 375 or 385. One built moto/ICC class at the same weights. One heavy/old class at 410# with built moto or ICC. Last year we had 5 and that was 2 too many.
I would also make the statement that the following year, 2007, there would still be only 3 classes, but heavy/old would move to stock moto also. In 2008, all shifter classes would be stock moto with 3 classes, novice, pro, heavy/old. ICCs and built motos would no longer be legal in any shifter class. Like FC engines of old, its time for them to go.
One potential solution to the built motos would be to allow legacy engines. The main problem with converting a built moto back to stock is that the cases have most likely been modified. Any competitor with a built moto who wants to run in stock would have to do the following.
1. Conform to all existing stock rules except for the modified cases. At worst case, the racer would have to replace cylinder, head, piston, reed cage and ignition. If he has an RS maniifold, he would have to remove the stuffers. Worst case costs, about $550 in parts.
2. Register the serial number of the cases as a legacy motor at the start of the season.
3. Run at a weight 10# over what ever the weight of the class is.
4. Karts that run legacy motors must be at least the previous model year in age. No new karts built for legacy engines. The intent of the legacy designation is to give those racers who can’t afford new equipment or former racers or novice racer who bought used equipment a place to play.
Many of the built motors also have modifed clutchs. While there no real power there, I would allow the legacy motors to run their modified clutchs. All motors not registered as legacy must be in full compliance to stock moto rules.
With the drastic changes coming in the homologation rules in 2007, most likely existing ICC engines will no longer be competitive with the 2007 engines. In years past, the changes have been minor but major changes are slated for 2007. Its time to get rid of them once and for all so we can get shifter racing back on track and growing again.
Joe brings up a good point. One of the reasons Rock Island does not do 80 junior is because of the age of the competitors and the speed. They are concerned about liability. That is why they do only the lower hp and slower 4 cycle karts for the younger ages.
We have done many street/temp races around the country and one of the best we’ve done was in Barrie, Ontario. They use a combination of street, parking lot and park roads to create a great race track. More importantly, they do it in an area of town that is a natural attraction for spectators, the lake front. I’m not exagerating at all when I tell you they get in over 15,000 people a day to watch the race. Combined with a carnival, car show and display booths, there were people everywhere.
Temp races are great for our sport as we get the action in front of people who just might want to join us. It also gets us exposure that may generate sponsorship. While the individual racer may not get much if any, the series can leverage the crowd exposure into $$$ that can help all of us by reducing the costs of putting on events or prize money.
As city streets and parking lots are inheiratly dangerious (poles, curbs, bad pavement), great care has to be taken in the layout of the course. There are also issues of crowd control. But none of these are insurmountable problems. If the race course is in some remote parking lot, that defeats the purpose of doing it in the first place for both us and Greeley.
Whether or not its part of the CSC is another question. If the race exists at all, it will impact both the CSC and club races. Racers only have so much time and money and a race in Greeley is one less race they can do elsewhere. If it is made part of the CSC, that gives the race more legitimacy and will ensure a larger turnout. It would also help attract out of state racers much like the Cascade Locks race does. Isn’t that what Greeley is after?
One draw back to being part of the CSC is our younger classes and less experienced racers. Because of the potential for increased danger, I fully understand the relutance and concern of some parents. However, as Joe points out, the devil is in the details. I think a properly done temp can be both safe and exciting for racer and spectator. I say lets shake this tree and see what falls out!
I hope every one had a great time. We couldn’t make it this year as the oldest was suppposed to come home yesterday from college. Unfortuantly it turned in to air plane hell. After the first plane made it to the runway, then turned around with problems, it went downhill from there. The kid should have been in by 1:30pm but didn’t make it till well after 7:00. And of course the bags didn’t show up till this morning!
Oh well, I hope everyone had a great time racing this past year and I hope next year brings more and better racing. A CSC with one race at each track and two temps would make Colorado the envy of the nation. It has the potential of being one of the best, if not the best regional series in the country. I hope it can happen.
Colorado’s loss is Utah”s gain. We lose a great karter but he’s not that far from us. I know the Utah karters have a great advocate for them. Good luck Mitch.
I always thought the spoiler was there to challenge the helmet painter. I’m so glad you guys are sround to straighten me out!
Could we ask for better weather than we had yesterday? If it stayed like that all winter then warmed up in the spring, that would be fine by me!
We had the stock moto out yesterday at Bandimere. We made a couple of small changes, First we changed gearing. We took a tooth out in the front and added a tooth in the rear. That gave it a bit more pull off the tight corners. Second, we added the rear torsion bar to give it a bit more grip under acceleration. We also lowered the air presures by 1# due to the warmer track surface from last weekend.
Bottom line, we dropped .3 of a second from last week. We still had on the same tires as last week. His times would have put him 4th on the grid in Pro and in front of all the S2 and S3 karts.
Next changes will be to jetting to get more over rev. (It’s still jetted for sea level) We still could use a bit more grip in the rear for acceleration so I’m going to try different wheels. I’m also thinking a different axle. Right now it has a medium axle in it. If we switch to a Pro axle, it should get a bit smother ride and still have the grip on exit. We also need to get a seat that fits. This seat is way to loose and Greg is getting thrown around in it. A better fit on the seat should be good for at least .2!
We only need .1 qucker to beat the fastest time for a Moto at the track according to the records they kept out there. Not bad for a stocker.
Andy
My son is 6’1″ and wieghs 135. There’s not an off the shelf suit that will fit him. We always get custom suits. They are not as expensive as you might first think but it will certainly pay off in comfort. We use Stewart Racing products as their quality is first rate, the serivce couldn’t be better and the pricing is very fair.
Tom
Call me if you get a chance. I have some other things I want to talk to you about (none karting).
As far as the package goes, I can easily do a complete race ready kart for under $7,000. How far under depends on what kind of other stuff a guy wants like MyCron and seat. The engine package would run around $3,200 to $3,500 with shipping. Thats complete less rad but including carb, pipe, silencer and mount. If a guy didn’t want a Leary built engine, we could drop that number to around $2,700.
Welcome to the funny farm. Karting is way cool and with you being what we call a “Master”, you won’t find a better nor more fun loving group in karting. For new karters and others who just want to go fast without speding the kids inheritance, TaG offers the best bang for the effort.
In Tag, the intent of the engines are to be low maintenance yet high performance. At your weight, you can use any of the Tag packages and be competitive. The Rotax is king of the 2 cycles when it comes to low maintenance closely followed by the Leopard. The 4 cycle Biland is also very low maintenance. The main advantage of hte Rotax is that you can run either Tag or RMax Challenge races. All the others you can only run Tag. Do a quick search of Rotax Challenge and you will see what I mean.
Shifters are without the bad boys. They are great fun to drive and the thrill can’t be beat. They do require significantly more maintenance. While running a top flight ICc engine is not forhte budget racer, a rgowing class is stock moto. The engines a basically stock 125 Honda engines and they last all season with little or no maintenance.
Tag karts will set you back $5,000 to $6,500 new while shifters go from $6,500 to $12,000 for all the best bells and whistles. Used Tag karts can be had for as little as $3,000 to $4,000, sometimes less. Shifters start usually around $3,500 and go up from there.
When looking at a used kart, look at the underside. There will always be flat spoting of the tubes but excessive flat spoting means the kart frame is worn out. One of the best sources of karts is right here on this site. The classifieds often feature good karts at fair prices.
Feel free to give us a call and we will try to get you pointed in the right direction. 303-781-7829
And now the results. Chris’ band, Fairview was 6th in class 5A going into semi-finals. The top 7 bands go on to the finals. Unfortunatly for them, they fell back a bit and several bands picked it up a bit and they came in 8th in the semi-finals. Their day was done.
Greg’s band was 5th going into semi-finals and they managed to hold on to the spot in semis but barely as Dakota Ridge really improved. In the finals, the kids were a little bit flat and it showed in the scores. Dakota Ridge continued to improve and they took the 5th spot. So Conifer finished 6th in class 4A.
It was cold but the kids really put on some spectacular shows last night. Now we can finally relax and get back to the other fun stuff.
@Todd Bellew wrote:
OK so if you wanna go there. They dyno tested an after their testing the weight have moved three times. What good was that dyno info?
Now you read and don’t comprehend. Where were we going to start with Tag weights? Dyno testing was the quickest and least biased of any testing that SKUSA, remember it was SKUSA who was doing the testing, could have done at the time. EVERYBODY in the industry supported it. The results were published for anyone who wanted to look at it on SKUSA’s web site. It was the most extensive and comprehensive testing that anyone has done on Tag.
But as we all know and we all knew at the time, the dyno testing would only be a STARTING point, not the final, end all, cast in stone forever weights. Only those off in some unreal world could have thought differently. The real test would only come once the rubber hit the track. As I hope you well know, the money to do independant track testing was not forth coming. Who wants to step up and do it now? What track should we use? Who’s paying for tires?
What I object to is your comment that testing was not done when in fact it was and by your organization. The fact that there have been adjustments, so what? As we’ve seen, new engines have been introduced, engines have been updated and some just flat perform differently on the track than on the dyno. You somehow want to make the case that just because dyno testing wasn’t the end all, be all solution, you want to discredit it all together. I for one am glad changes were made and actually the latest weights you made aren’t bad at all.
@Todd Bellew wrote:
Published data. Has any set of Tag weights ever been based on true complete honest testing following the scientific method. NO. Should we let a person with years karting experience, been around the country and viewed many races, participating daily in rule making make a decision or a less qualified individual?
When are you going to stop beating your chest and at the same time slapping your predessesor? The fact is Marty did extensive dyno testing and the dyno charts were in fact posted in the first Tag rule book posted on the SKUSA web site. Most of the manufacturers were deeply involved with the testing and many, including our own Brad Linkus made the trip to Washington to assist in the testing. Given the conditions of the time, that’s the most scientific testing we could have done.
At the time Tag was so new, nobody, including you, had any idea how the dyno testing would relate to real world track time. But we had to start somewhere and dyno testing was certainly a good first base. But as we have all seen, there is a lot more to this than just power to weight. The characteristic of the engines are so different, I think its impossible for one set of weights to work at every track.
We all knew that there would be adjustments as time went on and as more data filtered back in from the real world. Add to that manufactuerers and importers making improvements to engines, sanctioning bodies all viving for postion and control, its a wonder anyone is even interested in racing this class!
