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First, let me say that there no way a weight formula can equalize every engine for every track, the power bands are just too different between the motors. Some engines will have an advantage at certain tracks and not at other tracks.
Of the 2 cycle engines, the main advantage the Sonic, Comer, Vortex Rok and Leopard have is the wide rpm band. They can twist very high rpm when compared to the Rotax. (The Rotax has a rev limiter, the others do not) This gives them an advantage on tracks that have a slow corner relative to the length of the straight. Bandimere is a good example of that. The Rotax runs out of rpm on top but is too low in the rpm range off the slow corners. The others get a jump in the slow corners, the Rotax gets it back in mid range, then loses again on top. It makes for interesting racing though.
At a track like IMI, it’s another story. With no slow corners, the Rotax is almost unbeatable there. The Rotax can be geared to stay in its sweet spot the entire time and is almost a .5 second faster than anything up there. It is a similar story at Grand Junction but not quite as dominate. I call those two tracks Rotax friendly as they have less varience in the rpm requirements from the engine.
The Steamboat Track requires a great handling kart and a good driver to win. The engine package is less important there. The layout is such that just about any engine package can win there. It really comes down to the driver and kart.
At CRE, the high winder engines should have the advantage. The only good passing zone really favors the high winders. But since the CSC doesn’t go there, we will not know this year how the various engines do there.
One engine that has not done well in Tag senior is the Biland and I’m really sure why. It should do well, it has all the right charateristics to do well. Based on its showing in other parts of the country, it appears to weighted correctly. It may just be more a reflection on the quality of the drivers of the other engines than on the Biland itself. Colorado has some very good drivers running in Tag senior.
TaG has many engine choices. There are many reasons to choose one engine over another but something to consider. If one engine begins to dominate, TaG USA is going to give it a lead trophy and back in the pack it goes. So I would not make my engine purchasing decision based soley on which one wins. If I were going to race exclusivly at one track, then it may make sense to buy based on wining. Like I said, if I were going to race mostly at Bandimere, I would have Leopard. If at IMI, for sure a Rotax. One of the biggest things to consider is long engine life. Of the two cycles, the undisputed king is the Rotax, followed by the Leopard. The other engines have demonstrated less than acceptable engine life when compared to these two but they are working hard to improve. The longest of all is of course the 4 cycle Biland.
Other things to consider are your weight. If you are less than 175#, then you should look at the Rotax or Leopard as they run on the lighest weights. The Sonic and Comers are for guys who weigh more. In the case of my drivers, they weigh only 135# and we have almost 40# of lead on the karts. For us to run a Sonic would just mean more lead and I would never get any help lifting the kart! One possible advantage to running a Rotax, there are Rotax only events, part of the RMax Challenge series. You have more places to run a Rotax than any of the other engines.
The reason Sonic did well in in Dayton can be traced to one man, Todd Spaude, ( one of the very good guys in karting) owner of TS Racing, the importer of Sonic. They have been racing there for years and they know that track better than any one. The layout favors the high winders, TS had very good drivers in the karts, hence they did very well. The same combination was at the SuperNats in Vegas and they got spanked hard. Some days you’re the pigeon, some days the statue.
Marty did say that the Tag USA rules would be up shortly and they are clearifying some things. He has been watching this discusion and I’m sure will take that into consideration.
I would tend to agree with Jim. I talked with Marty who was working the ProKart race along with Chris E. in California over the weekend. Things did go well but tech did miss a few things, like a couple of Tag engines that were missing the Tag part. :idn: The key is getting the staff in place to run a race to a posted schedule and check for some of the basic stuff like spec tires and fuel. After that, lets just have fun and race. After all, this ain’t F1.
It would be nice if our tech guy was certified at least a little bit. WKA is running tech seminars on how to tech 4 cycles at their KartFest in Kansas City later this month and Tag USA will be doing similar stuff in KMI on Tag engines.
Tom and Charles
I talked with Marty Casey today about this topic. He comfirmed what I had thought. We can swap out those parts that are commonly used in jetting, the main jets, pilot jets, needles, difusers or emulsion tubes, slides and needle and seats. They must be Delorto parts and they can not be altered in any way. The use of any after market parts would not be legal. I asked spcifically about the cap and spring and he said they should be stock OEM unaltered parts. So the use of the after market cap and spring would not be legal under Tag USA rules. Basically we can make the same changes that an ICC motor can make.
I would think the 17th would also be bad for the national guys. I always hated doing a race the weekend before a big deal event. Two reasons, too much risk of damaging the kart. Second, no time to prepare for the event. That gives like two days to complelety tear the kart apart, set it up and pack the trailer before leaving town. Then you get there with no time to test. That puts you behind the other guys who have been there all week burning up tires.
Personally, I would test on Saturday mostly to shake the kart down. Then leave on Sunday or Monday and spend the week in Moran testing. That’s what most of the fast guys will be doing.
I have not lobbied for any CSC date to change at any time for any reason this year. A conflict with Rotax grands doesn’t affect us at all as we do not intend on going. In fact, we won’t be contending for any CSC championship this year as there are too many conflicts with the current dates and other things we think are more important.
Jeff is off to his real life now, so his racing is most likely over and Greg is off to marching band this fall and most likely will not be attending any races this fall. Plus, we have a couple of dates out of state we would like to do this summer that come on CSC dates. At best we will only do 4 CSC races this year.
Change them how ever you like. I’m just pointing out that for every change to suit one guy or group of guys, there is another group of guys that will not go because of the change. If you change the date to one that stomps over a CRE date, then you won’t get any of those guys that may have been interested in attending a CSC date. That is why we have drops, so that a racer can do other things and not be taken out of a championship.
I thought one of the reasons for a drop was for a racer to able to miss a race and not be taken out of the hunt for a championship? Almost every date has a conflict with some other date somewhere. Now we have kid kart guys needing a date change.
Scott
You should race in the class where your age dictates. If your age puts you in the senior class, thats where you should be. You should have the correct equipment for that class and age. If you are a junior in age and you have a senior engine, the switch for you is very easy. It is simply the cylinder. It is one of the major advantages of owning a Rotax. Very simple changes to go from one class to the next keeping the same basic motor package.
Any Rotax dealer can handle the swap and you will be surprised how reatlively inexpensive it can be. Then in a year when you are ready for the senior class, a simple swap of the cylinder and off you go.
By the way, in either class, you’re going to get your hat handed to you. The juniors maybe juniors, but some of them will have been racing for years. 😀
Last year in the CSC, we allowed TaG junior to run senior motors without restrictors to run at senior weights. Rotax juniors in the same class ran at junior weights and were at a strong disadvantage.
TaG USA has rules for Tag junior motors. With the exception of Rotax junior, they are bascially senior motors with some form of restrictors to bring the power down. In the case of the leopard, its an exhaust restrictor. The Vortex Rok uses a different pipe. The Biland was to use a single carb in place of the dual setup.
This year, I would hope that we would put a stop to that.(senior motors without restrictions) TaG junior should be per Tag Junior rules including all restrictors as per TaG USA rules.
Last year we allowed unrestricted senior motors at senior weights in TaG Jr. I hope this year the CSC follows TaG USA and drops this. Senior motors with restrictors are TaG USA rules.
@joe marshall wrote:
Looks like we are going to need all those upgrades for the carb to keep up with the jones. Here we go again!
Actually, I don’t think a Rotax racer really needs to make hardly any changes to his carb to keep up. Last year, we did fairly well with our Rotaxs in TaG, and the only deviation from RMC jetting was we used larger pilot jets. We used stock slides, tubes, needles, airboxes everything! Because of the nature of IMI, I don’t think a Rotax would need to change a thing from RMC to be competitive.
At Bandimere, the change in slide and pilots does help and the same holds for Steamboat. ( We ran the different slides at those two tracks) At GJMS, the pilot helps a bit but a good handling kart and driver could overcome most of it.
As we will not be running the Rotax grands and therefore will not be running any RMC series for points, the decision does not affect us one way or the other. I’m just trying to point out the possible areas of problems where the rules are different.
The other obvious areas that will need to be discussed are tires and fuel. RMC will require Mojo’s and VP MS93 with RS7 mixed 50:1 and the CSC will be ???? I hope the CSC doesn’t require the Rotax to run too high an octane of fuel. It makes the jetting a pain in the butt.
Charles
I talked specifically with Marty Casey at Tag USA about what I could change and what I could not in a Rotax. The first part on your list is a yes, all jets, main, and pilot, needle, slide and dispersion tubes. Any modifications to the body or the top is a quick route to a dq.
We would be in favor of seperate RMC races, not combined with CSC TaG as qualifers for the Rotax grands. I would rather see the Rotax kept as intended. I understand how the points would be kept, the first RMC guy across the line would get 1st place points for RMC.
But my concern would be that an RMC guy could get inadvertently caught up in an incident with no RMC TaGs that could have a detrimental impact on the racers season points standing. And as Dennis points out, fewer racers will qualify this year than last year due to the new points structure.
I can also understand the reluctance of not wanting to run a seperate RMC race on saturday. The CSC has got to limit the amount of practice on Sunday if it wants to give us more laps in the finals (which it should, 10, 12 lap finals are a joke) and get us out of there at a reasonable time. 7:00PM is not reasonable! Saturday becomes not only an important practice day, but an important source of income for the track owners.
I’m not sure there is a good solution here. Tom’s idea maybe the best comprimise.
