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It is good to hear there are things happening behind the scenes. I am cautiously optimistic.
I believe we need the national leadership of SKUSA and/or ROTAX to participate in putting this together. I would even go a step further and let them collectively manage and run the thing.
As such it would probably look like this, following the current National Organization(s) Rules:
SKUSA-
Tag Cadet
Tag Junior
Tag Senior
Tag Master
S1
S2
S3
S4
S5Rotax-
Micro
Mini
Junior
Senior
Master
DD2Maximum seat time. 2 practice sessions, qualifying, 2 heats and the main.
You would have to combine a few of the Rotax classes with the SKUSA Tag classes in order to fit this in one day. They would be scored separately.
SKUSA could combine S1 and S2. I am not a fan of combining S4 and S5. I saw an unmentioned S5 put the moves on a couple of S4 drivers last year with “not so great” results for the S4 drivers. I have to admit it was fun to watch from the fence.
I realize this formula is not all inclusive but it is a start and will work. Personally I feel anything outside of the defined classes stated above should stay at the club level. If Colorado had a history of WKA or IKF or whatever, I would feel differently.
The majority of racers in this state have the gear to run what is outlined above right now.
It would be great to have this set up and running at a couple of the local tracks this next season and hope it works out for everyone. Our plans will remain the same. If and when it is figured out and defined, we will re-evaluate.
Cris
@Greg Welch wrote:
@Brad Linkus wrote:
There can only be one state series if you want any turn out. I really can’t believe the talk about street or parking lot races, they are too much work, too much cost and trash your kart. It’s not like there are not plenty of real kart tracks in the state you should be supporting. You want to run your kart in a parking lot or on the street get a Shriner kart and do parades! Unser racings parking lot would be joke of a track with no room to do a decent course, if they want to have real kart racing then build a real kart track! Get off these stupid ideas people! Support one state series on the tracks we have and one promoter be it SKUSA or who ever. :lame
Wow Brad, I’m surprised you have this kind of attitude towards I believe the only shop owner who came and supported races at your track this year. If it doesn’t make more sense for the racers and shops than racing at Centennial, then I’ll continue to take my drivers to Centennial, and out of state.
I am glad I didn’t post about my brilliant idea of having a combo asphalt/dirt temp track at my facility…………………………. Of course being called stupid is nothing new to me. I called myself a dumb ass twice today already.
Cris
@Brad Linkus wrote:
There can only be one state series if you want any turn out. I really can’t believe the talk about street or parking lot races, they are too much work, too much cost and trash your kart. It’s not like there are not plenty of real kart tracks in the state you should be supporting. You want to run your kart in a parking lot or on the street get a Shriner kart and do parades! Unser racings parking lot would be joke of a track with no room to do a decent course, if they want to have real kart racing then build a real kart track! Get off these stupid ideas people! Support one state series on the tracks we have and one promoter be it SKUSA or who ever.
I agree that temporary tracks are expensive and we need one series, I just would have phrased it different. I assumed this thread was to give people a forum to present ideas and discuss what is possible. Calling them stupid will keep most from posting.
My take on how it should be set up-
SKUSA Pro Kart / Rotax Challenge Mountian Region as the Organization
1 race at each track that is on board
National Class structure and rules with a couple of open classes
No rental karts on track for Saturday Practice and Sunday Racing
Item that needs resolved- how do you get the Colorado Jr Karter Club involved or is it possible? My opinion is that these kids really don’t need us and throwing them into an event with 100 plus racers will take away from the experience not improve it. Jay please chime in.Scott-
You said you have spoken with ALL TRACKS- what did TTAC have to say on the matter?Cris
And one other thing…………………….
Stacey posted an outline/idea for a 5 race series that would require his crew to travel 500 miles round trip 4 times. That alone says a lot.
Thanks Stacey.
You can add Christian to the list.
You can add my name if Gary Davis is added to your list. Gary and I need to start having fun again.Cris
@stacey cook wrote:
We would really encourage a SKUSA mtn region series, with the inclusion of Rotax it is going to be a terrific program!
one round each at:
GJMS
IMI
SBR
Bandimere
MillerThis could be like the good ol days with everyone working towards the same goal!
Again thank you!
THAT SOUNDS GREAT.
Regional / State series
National class structure
100 plus karts showing up for races
Let’s make it happen. Let me know how I can help
Brad even stated (on another thread) that he will build a new track if the karts start showing up.Cris
@Brad Linkus wrote:
I have almost enough dirt, only missing the karters!
Remember the other rich snob racing country clubs that were never built? Genova, Ring of the Rockies, and one more that I forgot the name.
Field of Dreams, Brad- If you build it they will come.
Yes I do remember all of those “country clubs” and that was my first thought when I saw this “new one”. I just found it ironic with the post I made.
I applaud anyone who has enough disposable cash to join a club like that and race expensive cars. Those are the same guys who pay for my products and employ my customers who are also my friends. 100% of them are rich by my standards and 95% of them are not snobs. Hell, if I could afford it I would join one. We are happy racing karts and I am sure your kart traffic will increase exponentially with a new track.
Think of it as urban re-development.
PSA for IMI- If anyone has any extra fill dirt- Please haul it up to Dacono so we can get this party started.
Cris
@Brad Linkus wrote:
Yea, sure you won’t need a membership but you would pay $200 to use the kart track but before any of this happens they will need to sell 200 memberships for $25000 and they will each have to pay $3500 per year dues. Fat chance selling that one!
You might be right but who knows.
When I posted that “new track” comment I was (kind of) hoping you would respond by telling us you had enough fill dirt now and are moving forward with the new track you had laid out.
Cris
Earlier in the thread I wrote:
As always racers (consumers) vote by where they race and spend money. Locally, nothing will change until there is an alternative. All bets are off when a new track comes to town.Not getting my hopes up but…………………..
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/12/prweb10202881.htmOne of our fellow karters has spoken with a rep from this thing and he said the kart track will not require a membership.
Cris
Lee:
Some of the things in this thread are “direct” but most need to be stated in a public forum for Karting in the front range of Colorado. I appreciate hearing from You and Brad.Curt is right, it is impossible for things to change until the track owners collectively work together or at least tollerate one another. I used to believe differently.
The lone “state” series standing for the front range is Race the Rockies and all the races are held at the same track now. I guess if it is last series standing, TTAC won.
That worked out well
:trophy
Winning
@Greg Welch wrote:
Anyone remember when the 1st (of 3) version(s) of the Skusa Mountain Region used to race at Second Creek? Those were the glory days…
Apparently there are some guys still using it for “testing”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuxx5TLxIWs
This video was from a year ago. My office is in the north metro area and I take some back roads from there to get to the airport. I drive by that track every time I go. From the side road it looks in far worse condition than this video.
Cris
@Brad Linkus wrote:
Chris,
There is nothing to let go of, it is just the reality of the situation. “We” did not screw up anything collectively. I really do care about the sport and am just as frustrated as everyone else. It just pisses me off. It is not a matter of sitting in the same room and working it out. Did you forget why we all met in your office? It was not to convince Stacey and myself to keep our racing group together. Don’t blame us for this, we were not then or now the problem. He doesn’t give a s— what any of the racers want or what Stacey and I want it’s is all about him and he told us all very clearly that night including telling me personally he had no desire to share any adulation or praise with Stacey and I as if we were looking for any to begin with. When he pulled out that velvet bag with that little glass award I new we were not dealing with a normal rational thinking person. Good luck trying to get through to him. The only way that is going to happen is if everyone just quit supporting him by not going to any of his events and then maybe he would get the message. It going to be up to the racers to do it, there is nothing Stacey and I can do change this situation so it is just beating a dead horse.
Thanks Brad for responding.
To the masses it may appear that the 3 tracks from the CSC days don’t care or not interested. I apologize for the way it was phrased. Yes I probably knew better. As one of the three who made it work in the past, the racers need to hear your side of it. I had a message from Stacey and hope he chimes in. Jim as well.
As always racers (consumers) vote by where they race and spend money. Locally, nothing will change until there is an alternative. All bets are off when a new track comes to town.
I acknowledge both Brad and Stacey tried to keep the CSC running and supported The SKUSA Mountain region when it started. Stacey has always tried to be an advocate for our sport and hosted Race The Rockies when it was a start up series. He brought his whole crew to the front range SKUSA races even when we only had a couple of dozen entries. I do believe they have a genuine concern and passion for Karting. I believe Jim was open to the idea of hosting a SKUSA race at one time. I don’t know if SKUSA offering Rotax punches helps or hinders that possibility.
Cris
Brad
and Stacey and Jim-I have not, nor have most who post here forgotten the “who and why” of how we got here.
LET IT GO!!!If you really care about our sport you need to get together and figure it out. If you cannot legally or morally sit in the same room together please get/send someone you trust to be a representative for you. If you do not get it resolved we will continue to have races with low kart count. Stop blaming each other, racers and Lemmings. It is you (all) who collectively screwed up a pretty good thing and it is time to fix it for “the sport” you claim to care about.
Until then
:white@Mike Edwards wrote:
Well…..I’ve been down this road before. I guess this is where the term “hope and change” originated I think it should read more like “hope for change”. Anyway my family and I have been involved in karting in Colorado for over 10 years, both of my kids have grown up at the kart track and it just makes me sick to see what has happened. There are a lot of great people that are very passionate about karting that live in Colorado and there efforts appear to be going to waste because people don’t seem to care about the racers.
Karting in Colorado isn’t and never will be an empire! Please pull you head out before it’s too late.
Mike Edwards
Mike I will hope for change but not get my hopes up. I hoped for change Nov 6 and was clinically depressed for most of a week.
Given the State of affairs locally we will be shipping our gear out west and be spending one or two weekends a month on the left coast racing PKC and LAKC in Central and So Cal. It stinks when something like that is the easiest thing to do but we are waving the white flag on the local racing.
Cris
@Angel Ramirez wrote:
KIRK, YOUR IDEA SOUNDS GREAT BUT FOR ME IS A LITTLE BIT TOO FAR I MOVED TO CANCUN.AND YOU ARE RIGHT NOTHING LIKE THE EASY BUTTON OF THE ROTAX STARTING SYSTEM, AND AT SEA LEVEL THOSE MOTORS ARE ROCKETS. :dance:
Angel-
hope all is well south of the Border. We were in Cancun in August and I had intended to contact you but forgot.Hope the trailer worked out for you-Let me know how it is holding up in the Gulf Air.
We miss you around here.Cris
When I first saw the SKUSA Regional schedule I was a bit upset.
It is disappointing The Mountain Region will not have an event at one of the local Denver area tracks. I am way past being frustrated and almost can find some humor in what we (Colorado) have put up with the past 4 years. At a minimum it would make for a really good reality show.
I know Stan worked very hard on putting a SKUSA regional race on the Front Range. I applaud his efforts and thank him for trying. We will support what SKUSA is doing and make it work. As it stands now-This will require almost 3000 miles of travel for us next year and that does not include the windshield time for the Pro Tour.
I believe that having local, state and regional race organizations based on National Class Structure and Rules (like SKUSA and Rotax)is the way to go. You can add open classes as entries justify.
On the national and regional level (outside of Colorado) you will see Rotax and SKUSA working together next year. Locally maybe when hell freezes over, your card stops getting punched or are not allowed entry into a national race. The Nationals finally understand working together collectively is best for the sport and the bottom line. They are as frustrated as most us with the lack of cooperation on the Front Range of Colorado. The days of divide and conquer are over.
SKUSA is here for the long haul, Rotax is here for the long haul- neither one is going away. We like to bang gears, you like to play Tag. SKUSA has opened up to letting you play tag on a Rotax and get punched for your efforts. SKUSA allows you to use other TaG motors as well if you don’t run a Rotax. Why is this bad thing for the sport? Why can’t we do it around Denver one weekend a year?
Jim or Brad or both-Step UP . Not for SKUSA or Rotax but us- the racers and parents who spend time and money at your tracks. If we can bring this divided house back together I believe we can get 100 racers (plus) to once again come out and play. We did it with you before, have not (YOU and US)done it since, and (YOU AND US TOGETHER) can do it again.
Cris
