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Mike and Larry,
Ball bearings are in vogue and allowed for all classes. Everyone is running them now days you know. Fetzer valves are optional and may or may not offer a performance advantage.
I hear some people run them and if they win I would pony up the money to put them on my kart! Who was it that you saw mounting them Larry? I bet you Jim runs a Fetzer valve on his kart. He was fast at the last CSC race.
Funny Boys!
I am with Richie?s and Tom?s comments. I respect those flying the safety flag and their concerns and comments but I still have not been convinced that FWB wouldn?t provide a performance advantage.
We all know how it works in racing from F1 to karting. Everyone is looking for an advantage or at what the fast people are doing in order to keep pace. If Ferrari or another team has a new aero treatment all the other teams are testing it and putting on their car. If someone in karting is winning on a regional or national level others consider the equipment for their next purchase even though it was more to do with the combination of driver, motor, kart, and tuner doing the winning. People can get the perception that it was the kart or motor or ????FWB. I?m sure that CRG and Swedetech sold some karts and motors because of what happened in Vegas.
This leads me to what happens if someone wins a few races with front brakes or even the championship in a class that allows it as optional? Wouldn?t it possibly give others the perception that there is an advantage with them? Would people in the class feel compelled to have them? Would newcomers to the class think it is necessary to have them? The price of poker just went up.
If someone at the Florida Winter Tour were to win I bet you would see more people running FWB. Greg and Doug, you mentioned that you run at the FWT with them for the extra safety margin but I can?t believe you would have them on the kart if it was detrimental to your performance in some way. You guys are going there to win, not just to participate.
What is the plan from here with this poll Brad started? Will CSC do its own thing on this issue or follow Tag USA (if it keeps the rules as currently stated)? Who is it that will make the final decision for what CSC will do? When would that decision be made?
We sure do not need a situation like what the Renault F1 team suffered last year. Time and money spent to develop a mass damper system, allowed to run with it for most of the season only to be told midway through that it had to be removed. I sure don?t want to see people spend the money for FWB to run part of a season or even just one season later to be told to remove it.
Final thought and you can shoot me on this one. If safety is the main concern behind the voting and a push for FWB shouldn?t in be made mandatory. After all, some people don?t like wearing seatbelts but it?s required not optional for your own safety. Right?
Hey Rick,
Good to hear from you and your responses to my posts. I hope you are healing well. Everyone else?s responses are also appreciated. We all have the common love for our motor sports that draws us together in competition, community, and friendship.
My main concern here is having the Tag classes continue to grow and to avoid changes that may be detrimental to that. I don?t want to see Tag become a checkbook racing class.
I?m curious as to who would run front brakes if they are allowed as optional and of those who would do it for safety reasons vs. possible performance advantage. A new poll? We have nothing better to do with all this snow.
@RBI wrote:
For those that say front brakes do not make a dif, lets test it. I guarantee that I could out brake anyone with rears only. I have driven both. I can go twice as deep, and keep my exit speed.
@Greg Welch wrote:
Hers the thing. Everyone says that front wheel brakes can go deeper before braking, and that is true.
Lets say you are not producing faster lap times with front brakes for the sake of the argument. At the very least it would appear from these quotes (I agree with) that you would be able to out-braking someone without them into a corner. Explain to me how this is not an advantage.
Not much concern about the cost to the racer in all this. The price point for Tag will now be about what it is for Spec 125 and I think could hurt the Tag class.
For those concerned about safety doesn?t a rear brake only set-up that has dual calipers and master cylinders with a high quality rotor have any merit?
I appreciate what everyone is saying about the added safety of having front brakes especially with the heaver tag weights that we are seeing. With the redundancy alone you have a safer kart.
With that said we all enjoy a hobby that does not lend itself to being safe in the first place. I believe that you have far more of a chance of getting hurt by an inexperienced and/or overaggressive driver than a compete failure of a rear brake only kart.
Aren?t the Tag classes designed to be a fast but economical solution for kart racing? Has anyone priced that cost of putting front brakes on your kart if you do not already have them or purchasing a new one with them vs. without? I am looking into pricing and am waiting for a call back suspecting the price to be over a thousand dollars to add a front brake system. It will make the price to enter the class that much higher and someone considering running the class feel that they are at a disadvantage without them.
Front brakes will be an advantage at the tighter Greely, Bandi, and Steamboat tracks that offer heavier braking. You can not convince me that it wouldn?t. Have a pro driver like Alan run the test on a tight track that requires some good braking and do it scientifically. I do not know if Grand Junction is a tack to do it at. I spoke with Greg Bell from Leading Edge Motorsports yesterday and they have tested a kart with and without and found more speed with front brakes (go figure)! A proper test with Alan would enforce that finding.
For those concerned about safety wouldn?t a solution of going with a dual rear brake caliper system that incorporates twin master cylinders make sense? If you do that along with a high quality rotor I suspect it would be a cheaper solution for you and everyone else and keeps the integrity of the class intact.
Tag USA is using weight in an attempt to balance the different motors. Mixing front brake karts with or without a weight penalty with rear brake only karts would create more complains and issues about track to track advantages/disadvantages that are already exist with the motor packages. I can not see making everyone put them on or run with people that do and don?t have them as a fair solution.
Thanks,
Troy
My own selfish desires would be to have CRE in the CSC schedule along with GGP and Steamboat races. GGP was great this past year and I think it will only be better next time. Temp tracks are great fun and equalize it for the drivers and tuners so, I’m for Steamboat. CRE is a great track to drive and would bring every track in Colorado into play. Just my own selfish two cents worth.
Does Mike Jensen work or just play on this forum? He is always posting on here. I guess my problem is that I am always reading them. Great stuff! Great thoughts Mike!
