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Love these type of rumors! I have also heard rumors that the CKT race at Centennial will be close to 30 entries. Great to see so many people coming back to racing! The Duro tires with two weight classes and cheap entry fees for racing adds up to some GREAT/FANTASTIC/BRILLIANT racing. Also, have I mentioned how FANTASTIC the people that are racing in it are? Can’t wait until this weekend!
@Greg Welch wrote:
4k to enter any race? I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen an entry fee over $1,200. Ever.
Thank you Greg for actually providing the price to the national events. I was told it was in the 4k range. I must have been told incorrectly. Again, I was stating numbers that was told to me. Then people were saying I was wrong without giving me the correct prices. Thank you! I stand corrected in the entry price for a Rotax National event. This seems a lot lower than I originally was told/thought.
For those that got on my ass for saying the price was more and yet not giving me the correct price. ^ Here is a great concept. How about instead of bitching at me, how about we have a conversation like those that actually provided the actual prices for how much things are. It turns into a much easier conversation.
So 1200 entry fee. Does this include tires, fuel, and what not or is this just the entry into the race? I assume we have pit space fees and what not as well.
@Suicidecustoms wrote:
Wow, the subject line really depicts this topic and I’m not talking about the track cost, that is totally understandable. Roger said it right, if you want to promote karting stop being so negative, and so confrontational. But this is a public forum and our only choice is to not engage…. Blah blah blah.
Gia
Shifters rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even with a busted leg it costs money to race (actually with a busted leg it is extremely more money – this is from Gia).
Norbert
We actually think you are a decent guy, jet, but we can not figure out why you are so confrontational??
Please point out to me where I am being negative Norbert. And my name is not Jet. It is Jeremy. 😉 Confrontational? I just stated facts about how Rotax was more expensive than a Lo206 (which is truth) and yet I get bashed for it. Then I stick up for myself and am called confrontational? What? I will ask again. Where was I confrontational or negative? 4k vs 10k (yes, I got the price wrong initially but was corrected and I stated that) is a difference.
The original post was about a team charging 250 for a test and tune for extra people. The team already has it open without that extra person so they already have it paid for. I was just saying this is BS to charge the guy just coming to the track for a test and tune day 250. Charge him the normal 40 and be done with it. Unless he is getting all the stuff the other team members get that pay dues to the team. In regards to Rotax all I was saying was the price was higher than Lo206 and that I can go to a National level event for a 1/4 of the price. That is when others bashed into me saying I was starting stuff and being negative. It is funny how it is all the people that make money in some way shape or form with Rotax. It might be negative for them but for the people selling Lo206 it might be a positive. I am just trying to get the facts out there. The original poster bitched about cost and so I brought more of the issue up and yet I get bashed for it.
I am not confrontational I just speak up when I see an issue or something that doesn’t seem fair to me. I remember you talking next to my pit spot about GJMS about how you spent money and didn’t get all that you want. Public place as well… So you can bitch in person but I can’t say something that is facts on a public forum? I apologize for getting the amount wrong of 20k vs 10k but still that is a lot!
Gia, you say you don’t want to engage but you are. Communication is all I am looking for on here and yet I get pointed out that I am confrontational or other bs. Why is that? Bring up money I guess is fighting words in this community. That is a bummer. lol Also I guess weights and tire choice are other Hot topics. lol All I am trying to do is get communication up but anything I bring up that goes against “the what we have done in the past” it gets bashed and the poster gets yelled at and called negative and confrontational and not a real racer. Or get called a kid or a really bad toned response from all those that make money from this sport. and more specifically Rotax. If they really want to grow the sport their response should have been telling me exactly what a Rotax costs and how much it really costs to go to a National level event instead of saying I was being negative and just stating I got it wrong. It took Richard to pitch in to explain the cost. I find it sad this happened. All I was doing was sharing my view point and I get bashed for it. I truly don’t understand.
Can we please answer my questions about where exactly I was negative and confrontational? I feel it was on the other side that was negative and confrontational. I was level headed and just stuck to the facts but I will re-read just to make sure I am not being negative. If I find something that seems negative I will let you know. But please point it out if you have an example. I would really like to fully understand what is so negative and confrontational about facts. And this is a legit question not a snide comment or anything like that. sometimes the way I ask questions or state things can come across as passive aggressive or something. That isn’t the intent, I guess I just write that way. lol Most of the time I don’t even know I do it. (this was added as an edit as I felt that last part wasn’t clear. 🙂 )
@Richard Gordon wrote:
I have also heard that some of the Nationals, think SKUSA, do cost $3-4K to enter. Can’t confirm this though. Think for dealers, there is a higher profit margin with the TaG. Unfortunately a totally new setup is out of most people’s price range. The cost of running one is up there too. Here is what a lot are missing. The LO206 is not going to make dealers a lot of money off the bat. But, if it is promoted well, you can get a lot more people into it due to the low initial cost. This, in turn, gets more new karters involved and it will all balance out in the end. People also might want to get into TaG after running LO206. I know TaG was originally intended to be an inexpensive spec class, but it has now grown into a upper level class that costs a lot of $s to be competitve. That’s my $0.02 on the matter.
My thoughts exactly! I actually want to race a Rotax. I ran one in the last race at The Track and it was a blast! The only reason I haven’t got one yet is price. Just can’t afford to buy a TaG when I am also buying a trailer and what not. Maybe next year now that I know the true cost. Not sure how I got the 20k stuck in my head. lol That is why I like Lo206 so much as it is quick to get into the sport and be competitive. Every race I have been in has had some great battles. And it is the battles I am looking for.
Each have their + and – but price is a big – that keeps a lot of people away. I wish they were to move back to the way it used to be. I hope Lo206 doesn’t turn into another Rotax. lol
Wow, you all think I am stuck in my ways. Apparently, based on the text and outside comms I had the price too high. Richard was the first one to spell it out for me as I asked. Thank you Richard!
So, 2-3k for a chassis 5k for a good motor. Tires and fuel and parts we are looking closer to 10k instead of 20. Sorry I was told 20k somewhere and it stuck. I stand corrected on the amount.
In regards to the National event. Only 900 and that includes fuel, tires and oil that is a lot cheaper than what I was told. Last numbers someone gave me was like 4k for nationals.
See, I was just mistaken in how much it was cause I was told incorrectly. Instead of getting upset with me saying Rotax is too much a better reaction would have been like Richards actually giving me the exact information I was requesting. Those that said I was being negative could have provided the information Richard did.
No need to be butt hurt about saying lo206 is cheaper than Rotax. I mean math doesn’t lie 4k vs 10k. Granted my numbers were wrong above but this is just plain math. I bet this forum will help newbies decide which class to jump in as it has real numbers of ownership. Btw, I wasn’t looking to win the debate. More about getting correct information out there. If I am incorrect and get corrected I will state that. Which in this case I stand corrected but still 4k vs 10k from a math perspective Lo206 wins every time.
Edit: And I tried to ignore it but just couldn’t. Mike, I am not a kid. I am 31 years old and have done a lot in those 31 years. I would appreciate if you keep this civil and not call me something I am not. I will accept Dude, Man, Hey you, Jeremy, Davis, sir, or any other. But calling me a kid just sounds derogatory in this context. If it wasn’t meant that way I totally understand but if you were meaning it to be derogatory please, let’s keep this civil. We are both humans living in this place. Let’s show each other the respect we both deserve.
@FTK51 wrote:
Oh boy, we woke up the sleeping giant……
One minor point that you may be missing Jeremy, is that the track was not open for open testing those days, unless the teams paid to rent it out. I thought that I made that clear, but apparently it was lost in my elegant post.
There was no $40 option, because the track wasn’t interested in offering it. It was closed to open practice.
The only way that people were able to practice is if the teams stepped up and paid the $5K per day. At $40 per driver, they would have lost about $4K each day. That would have been pretty charitable of them. They found enough drivers willing to pay the fees to make it work.
They did so and simply expected to be reimbursed for their investment. Greedy bastards.
Next, Rotax karts aren’t $20K.
Finally, congratulations on your championship.
Andy
I would like to ask a question regarding this. You say the track was closed. You said in a previous post that rental karts make more money for tracks than holding a race. So why the hell was the track closed? It is a business correct? Who was paying for it to be closed? Any business person would want that place open if it can be opened. You said there are rules about practice at a track 1 week before a race. That sounds like Rotax pays the track to not open for those days. So, who pays for Rotax to pay the track? Oh, would that be the consumer? Also how much is a competitive National level kart? Can I get there and win a race (as long as I can drive) for 6k? I see you are a dealer so you should be able to answer these questions for me really quickly. Like I said, I have been told it is a lot more so that is why I haven’t gotten into it yet. But if I can get in to a rotax for 6k then I just might. This 6k came about as this is the exact price for my kart plus the national event I am already going for 206 (Brand new equipment), plus room and extra parts and support items. Can I do that with a Rotax, if not how much would it be? 10, 15, 20?
@Mike Edwards wrote:
Oh…Before I forget, I have 2 national level Rotax Senior motors for sale, $1500.00ea or $2800.00 for both. Both are fresh and ready to go, and I’ll throw in any spare Rotax parts I have as well.
Mike
I have a championship level lo206 for sale $400. Crank is damaged but it still won. That is why it is so low on the price. It has won two championships in two years. Willing to trade? All joking aside. How is that motor so cheap? Was it competitive at the National level? Who drove it and where did they place? I am having a hard time in believing a 1500 motor will be competitive at the National level. But please correct me if I am wrong. Again, I will ask this, how much is a National level event for Rotax? I would like the price you would need to pay in order to place in the top 10 if you are a good enough driver.
And Roger, I know who you are. You question my involvement like you don’t know who I am, so I asked you a question about your involvement. Just like you did me. You provide your services to one series (You get paid, right?). What about the other? I am out supporting both (paying). You ask me to do my part. I ask you, why are you not at both series? Also I asked you what exactly was negative about my comments. You can’t give me the common decency to give me a reply to a legit question? The response of “I have already documented my point” yes, you have but I question the meaning which means I would like clarification. Communication goes both ways.
wow, people get upset when I show them how much they are spending on a kart when I have the same thing with the Lo206. I am not sure how I am being negative. lol You must be taking me saying it is more $$$$ as a negative comment. I am just stating facts and the reason I am not racing in it. I am also showing a different option. Can you show me where I am being negative? And saying that spending 250 instead of 40 is too much. How is that being negative?
If someone wants to spend 5k per year they will not be able to run in Rotax. It just isn’t possible. But they could run Lo206 and be able to win races. Now the people that want to spend 500k can totally win races and go to every national event. I am just pointing out how the Lo206 is a cheaper option than a Rotax. How is that being negative? From my point of view I am doing the public a favor and explaining the real cost so that someone can be educated in their decision on what to race.
You say I must do my part. What is that exactly? I race in both series here in Colorado. Do you? I have bought majority of my stuff locally. I practice at every track I can. I post on the forums letting people know how much a competitive Rotax is (which I am still waiting to be corrected on the price but haven’t been given real numbers yet) and how much a competitive Lo206 is. I voice my opinion that I think it is bs to charge a test and tune person 250 when they could charge 40 and still make the money as you keep forgetting the team members are already paying the 250 or more for their membership dues to the team. So this extra person coming to the track on a test and tune day instead of paying 40 has to pay 250. That is what I am calling out as BS. And yet I am told I need to spread a more positive feel to grow the community? What exactly does this positive feel to grow the community look like? If it is being quiet when I see issues that split the community like price I am not going to stay quiet.
Here we have two series that have great racing and yet I go to both and see a different set of people. Why is that? Here I am wanting to race and showing how much it is to race and I get bashed for it? Why? What have I said that has got people upset with me? Telling me I have to do my part? What?
If talking about price point is a negative subject than I bet that is an issue? See, put it into a different perspective. When you brake a rib it hurts. It has a negative tone to it as there is a problem but it just isn’t visible. Once you shed some light on it or poke it a little to make it scream you understand the issue. Price in all racing is a broken rib. I might not be able to stop everything but maybe this post will light a fire under someones ass to change it. This is after all a free country (I thought anyway). This is a public forum. I am happy to have these debates in person if you feel I am hiding behind a computer. Keys why I have my name and kart number on there. 😉 And yet, in person I have the best conversations. People are so nice! Why on here I say the same things and get bashed for it? Why?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc5iXlphMnQ Here is a Lo206 series that gets BIG numbers and has really close competition. Get this, the total amount spent to race is 1/4 of the price of a Rotax/National level event. I mean a Margay Brava 4.15 is in the race with a lo206 straight from briggs. Total cost (new) would be 4k. I know because I bought one this season.
Love these recap posts. Thank you so much for writing them up and posting them! Really adds to the enjoyment of the weekend knowing what you have done will be presented to the public. 🙂
The price to get into karting in general is too high. I wanted to get into karting when I was younger (5-6). But my parents didn’t make enough money to get me into a competitive class so instead my dad built a kart and I raced it at my local track my dad made in a field next to our house. If I would have been able to afford it at that time I might be racing in F1 by now. ( lol I know, I had BIG dreams. ;)) The point I am making is the cost of entry is keeping people away from the sport that otherwise could be competitive. That is why I like the Lo206 so much. You can’t buy yourself to the top. With Rotax you just spend 15/20k and poof you have a fast engine that makes a little extra HP that will bring you to the top.
Don’t get me wrong. I had a blast driving a Rotax and think they are a lot of fun. But I am here to race and have close battles. In order for that to happen I have to spend a lot of money. Where as with LO206 I just have to free up the kart and make sure my driving is up to par and poof I am racing in close battles. They are both racing and they both have national events. One costs a lot of money the other doesn’t. Sponsors show up to both events just the same. Which one would you lean towards if you are on a budget?
You guys are totally missing my point. LOL And I find it funny how you get on me for giving an option that is a lot cheaper and still provide the exact same type of fun and competition. Remember I wasn’t the one that started this post. 😉 Sponsors can look at the LO206 too for great drivers. Some would argue that the lo206 is a drivers kart and puts more on the driver to be good than buying your way into Rotax top splits.
Rotax doesn’t need to be this expensive to get into karting and to get a sponsorship. Why would the track be closed if they make more money with Renters?!?!?!?! That logic doesn’t connect with me. lol I mean if they make more money with renters why were they closed? Huh? I mean really, do they want to make money?
BTW Mike, it is Denton Texas. 😉
And the reason tracks charge owners 40 is due to the same cost they have to pay for renters or any other option. Why would you even bring this up? I mean we all still have to pay a price to get on track. What I am saying is charging others 250 just to get on track when the track normally charges 40 for the same this is a little BS. This is my whole point. Why charge 250 when normally 40 is charged for the EXACT SAME THING!!
Bitching about it could help fix the issue by letting people know there is an issue. I mean I want to race in the World Championship but I CANT due to how much $$$$$ you have to spend to even get there. How much is it exactly to get into a national event like the Rotax National Championship and actually be competitive? Please explain to me how much it really is if it is not 20k for just a competitive motor. Based on what I have been told cause I wanted to get into Rotax that it would be this much to go to a national event (entry fees alone are like 4k or something based on what I was told) and actually be competitive. I want to race real cars but can’t due to how much money they are. But based on what I am seeing a 25k spec car would be cheaper than a Rotax. lol
@FTK51 wrote:
The saddest thing about the entire situation is that the teams and ROTAX are being blamed for what happened last week.
I have been in the same spot with MMP, albeit 5 years ago. They plan a club race the weekend prior to the big race, but don’t have open practice on the schedule for the days leading up to it. (BTW, this is no different from the other sanctioning body, the only rules prohibiting practice are for the week of the event).
I rented MMP in 2011 for a day prior to the local race to serve my customers and other out of towners that wanted to attend, so I know the facts about doing business there.
SO, if someone wants to practice Thurs or Friday before the club event, they have to rent the track.
A track like MMP costs about $5K per day to rent. Its owned by a big corporation with a lot of rules and a rental business that makes far more money selling $25 rentals than hosting races. So, $3K track rental, $1K ambulance, $1K for the various workers needed, i.e. signup, grid, flags, corners, retrieval. The true cost may be $4800, or $5200, but I just want folks to understand the economics of it all.
I know that RPG and Koene rented the track. They have about 15 drivers between them. If they happened to get 5 others to join in, they had 20 drivers. So, $5K divided by 20 is????
$250 per driver.
Its pretty simple. Hopefully Common Core math hasn’t eliminated division from the curriculum.
The fact that some sit on their keyboards and blame teams for serving their customers as best they can, or an engine manufacturer for things that are beyond their control is pretty sad.
Take a breath, have a taco and go race at the level that you want to race, but there is no reason to throw crap on those that want to participate at a different level than you do.
A
Math doesn’t lie and you just proved my point right here. The track makes more money on renters. You just said it in your post above. Those Rental karts are usually close to an LO206 class in price of ownership and maintenance. The track already makes more money on rentals (like you said) so that means I should be able to pay the “same” amount to use my own kart. That would be math something like track fee – rental kart maintenance + additional track time. Most work out to be $40 a day.
Just seems to me people renting out the track is wasting money. lol I mean why not have the track open, allow renters and your other karts and call it a day? Oh wait, I know why. Greed and wanting to have a track to yourself. Tracks and these teams are in a business. A business of making money. Where as the common guy that really actually makes them more money (you said it yourself rentals and I showed the math for test and tune days) gets punted because someone with the money can go and rent out a track all day just because they can.
Now, don’t get me wrong. There are times when this is needed for a closed event or something like that. But just for test and tune and charging others 250 instead of the normal 40 is a little BS if you ask me. The tracks charge me $40 to have a full day of test and tune. A race series charges me $85. Why the heck would someone charge $250 for the same thing? Oh I know why they want to make money instead of building the community. Only their drivers that pay their fees get to have all the nice things.
I am just here to race and have fun. Paying $250 to a team instead of $40 to the track I will go elsewhere and the team looks bad in my opinion. Now, if I am paying the team and they give me instruction and a tent spot and all the great things for that 250 I would totally go for it. But if it is only to get on track I feel that is a little BS. They are renting the track and already have the money to pay for it/justify it. This would mean any extra money coming in would normally be a plus. How about do the nice thing and help build a community by charging $40 just for track access like what the OP said.
Edit: In regards to your comment about racing at a different level. I just couldn’t let that go. lol The only reason I am not racing a Rotax is due to cost to be competitive. I have been told like 20k would get you something. I am sorry but I have spent 15k on everything I have now. This is including a brand new kart, a new trailer, new tools, a generator, race fees for two series and extra tires, and all the maintenance. 20k is just for the kart to be competitive where as I paid 15k for fun and really competitive racing. I won The Track lo206 Medium championship last year and will be going to a National level event in August for a 1/4 of the price. Keep in mind 15k includes the national level race. Just add 1k for travel and what not and boom done for the season. lol So, yes Rotax and big teams are getting a finger pointing at them because it is just too much money to race at that level. It is just a kart and I can have the same amount of fun and same level of drivers for a lot cheaper price tag. And I went all out on my stuff. lol You can go really cheap if you would like and still win. Last year I proved that with buying a used kart (like at least 3 years old before I got it) and only spent money on fixing it up and my driving skills. Had a BLAST while doing it too.
Yes, that is a little BS! One of the reasons I am not running a Rotax. Just too much $ to be competitive. Meanwhile, just had an AWESOME battle in the CKT series this Father’s day weekend out at the fantastic SBR Motorsports complex. 😉 Only paid $85 to do it and was really competitive and had great fun!!! Anyone looking for a cheap option but still get all the fun I recommend looking at the LO206 class. Yes, you need to buy and maintain a kart but you will pay that plus $$$$ for a Rotax and have a chance of not being that competitive unless you pay $$$$$. LO206 you can find a complete used really competitive kart for 2k.
In the same lines of $. I am going to the IKF 4 stroke nationals in Denton this year and it is cheap compared to the US Open. Going to have the same feel for a 1/4 of the price based on my understanding. I even went the expensive route and bought 3 sets of tires that I wouldn’t really need. lol
Don’t get me wrong Rotax is a lot of fun but charging people that kind of money will kill the sport. LO206 is winning in this department and just look at the entries a cheap class pulls.
