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Yes, that is a little BS! One of the reasons I am not running a Rotax. Just too much $ to be competitive. Meanwhile, just had an AWESOME battle in the CKT series this Father’s day weekend out at the fantastic SBR Motorsports complex. 😉 Only paid $85 to do it and was really competitive and had great fun!!! Anyone looking for a cheap option but still get all the fun I recommend looking at the LO206 class. Yes, you need to buy and maintain a kart but you will pay that plus $$$$ for a Rotax and have a chance of not being that competitive unless you pay $$$$$. LO206 you can find a complete used really competitive kart for 2k.
In the same lines of $. I am going to the IKF 4 stroke nationals in Denton this year and it is cheap compared to the US Open. Going to have the same feel for a 1/4 of the price based on my understanding. I even went the expensive route and bought 3 sets of tires that I wouldn’t really need. lol
Don’t get me wrong Rotax is a lot of fun but charging people that kind of money will kill the sport. LO206 is winning in this department and just look at the entries a cheap class pulls.
The saddest thing about the entire situation is that the teams and ROTAX are being blamed for what happened last week.
I have been in the same spot with MMP, albeit 5 years ago. They plan a club race the weekend prior to the big race, but don’t have open practice on the schedule for the days leading up to it. (BTW, this is no different from the other sanctioning body, the only rules prohibiting practice are for the week of the event).
I rented MMP in 2011 for a day prior to the local race to serve my customers and other out of towners that wanted to attend, so I know the facts about doing business there.
SO, if someone wants to practice Thurs or Friday before the club event, they have to rent the track.
A track like MMP costs about $5K per day to rent. Its owned by a big corporation with a lot of rules and a rental business that makes far more money selling $25 rentals than hosting races. So, $3K track rental, $1K ambulance, $1K for the various workers needed, i.e. signup, grid, flags, corners, retrieval. The true cost may be $4800, or $5200, but I just want folks to understand the economics of it all.
I know that RPG and Koene rented the track. They have about 15 drivers between them. If they happened to get 5 others to join in, they had 20 drivers. So, $5K divided by 20 is????
$250 per driver.
Its pretty simple. Hopefully Common Core math hasn’t eliminated division from the curriculum.
The fact that some sit on their keyboards and blame teams for serving their customers as best they can, or an engine manufacturer for things that are beyond their control is pretty sad.
Take a breath, have a taco and go race at the level that you want to race, but there is no reason to throw crap on those that want to participate at a different level than you do.
A
@FTK51 wrote:
The saddest thing about the entire situation is that the teams and ROTAX are being blamed for what happened last week.
I have been in the same spot with MMP, albeit 5 years ago. They plan a club race the weekend prior to the big race, but don’t have open practice on the schedule for the days leading up to it. (BTW, this is no different from the other sanctioning body, the only rules prohibiting practice are for the week of the event).
I rented MMP in 2011 for a day prior to the local race to serve my customers and other out of towners that wanted to attend, so I know the facts about doing business there.
SO, if someone wants to practice Thurs or Friday before the club event, they have to rent the track.
A track like MMP costs about $5K per day to rent. Its owned by a big corporation with a lot of rules and a rental business that makes far more money selling $25 rentals than hosting races. So, $3K track rental, $1K ambulance, $1K for the various workers needed, i.e. signup, grid, flags, corners, retrieval. The true cost may be $4800, or $5200, but I just want folks to understand the economics of it all.
I know that RPG and Koene rented the track. They have about 15 drivers between them. If they happened to get 5 others to join in, they had 20 drivers. So, $5K divided by 20 is????
$250 per driver.
Its pretty simple. Hopefully Common Core math hasn’t eliminated division from the curriculum.
The fact that some sit on their keyboards and blame teams for serving their customers as best they can, or an engine manufacturer for things that are beyond their control is pretty sad.
Take a breath, have a taco and go race at the level that you want to race, but there is no reason to throw crap on those that want to participate at a different level than you do.
A
Math doesn’t lie and you just proved my point right here. The track makes more money on renters. You just said it in your post above. Those Rental karts are usually close to an LO206 class in price of ownership and maintenance. The track already makes more money on rentals (like you said) so that means I should be able to pay the “same” amount to use my own kart. That would be math something like track fee – rental kart maintenance + additional track time. Most work out to be $40 a day.
Just seems to me people renting out the track is wasting money. lol I mean why not have the track open, allow renters and your other karts and call it a day? Oh wait, I know why. Greed and wanting to have a track to yourself. Tracks and these teams are in a business. A business of making money. Where as the common guy that really actually makes them more money (you said it yourself rentals and I showed the math for test and tune days) gets punted because someone with the money can go and rent out a track all day just because they can.
Now, don’t get me wrong. There are times when this is needed for a closed event or something like that. But just for test and tune and charging others 250 instead of the normal 40 is a little BS if you ask me. The tracks charge me $40 to have a full day of test and tune. A race series charges me $85. Why the heck would someone charge $250 for the same thing? Oh I know why they want to make money instead of building the community. Only their drivers that pay their fees get to have all the nice things.
I am just here to race and have fun. Paying $250 to a team instead of $40 to the track I will go elsewhere and the team looks bad in my opinion. Now, if I am paying the team and they give me instruction and a tent spot and all the great things for that 250 I would totally go for it. But if it is only to get on track I feel that is a little BS. They are renting the track and already have the money to pay for it/justify it. This would mean any extra money coming in would normally be a plus. How about do the nice thing and help build a community by charging $40 just for track access like what the OP said.
Edit: In regards to your comment about racing at a different level. I just couldn’t let that go. lol The only reason I am not racing a Rotax is due to cost to be competitive. I have been told like 20k would get you something. I am sorry but I have spent 15k on everything I have now. This is including a brand new kart, a new trailer, new tools, a generator, race fees for two series and extra tires, and all the maintenance. 20k is just for the kart to be competitive where as I paid 15k for fun and really competitive racing. I won The Track lo206 Medium championship last year and will be going to a National level event in August for a 1/4 of the price. Keep in mind 15k includes the national level race. Just add 1k for travel and what not and boom done for the season. lol So, yes Rotax and big teams are getting a finger pointing at them because it is just too much money to race at that level. It is just a kart and I can have the same amount of fun and same level of drivers for a lot cheaper price tag. And I went all out on my stuff. lol You can go really cheap if you would like and still win. Last year I proved that with buying a used kart (like at least 3 years old before I got it) and only spent money on fixing it up and my driving skills. Had a BLAST while doing it too.
jdavis-403…….
Here’s the deal. If those teams want to charge $2.50 or $250.00 bucks for someone to come play that’s there choice, stop blaming others for the high cost of karting there are many reasons and factors that play into that. Your continued bitching isn’t going to change that. Some would argue why would anyone spend 15k to race a 206!
There are some who are building a resume through karting and hoping to attract sponsorship to take the next step in racing, so winning a Rotax National Championship or World Championship will look much better on their resume than the 206 class champion in Denton Iowa.
And to your point about charging to practice…..If it’s all about growing the sport than I wonder why track owners charge $40.00 bucks to practice when they really shouldn’t be charging anything if there only goal was to grow the sport, correct?
Enjoy racing whatever package you choose but keep it fun and enjoy!
Oh boy, we woke up the sleeping giant……
One minor point that you may be missing Jeremy, is that the track was not open for open testing those days, unless the teams paid to rent it out. I thought that I made that clear, but apparently it was lost in my elegant post.
There was no $40 option, because the track wasn’t interested in offering it. It was closed to open practice.
The only way that people were able to practice is if the teams stepped up and paid the $5K per day. At $40 per driver, they would have lost about $4K each day. That would have been pretty charitable of them. They found enough drivers willing to pay the fees to make it work.
They did so and simply expected to be reimbursed for their investment. Greedy bastards.
Next, Rotax karts aren’t $20K.
Finally, congratulations on your championship.
Andy
You guys are totally missing my point. LOL And I find it funny how you get on me for giving an option that is a lot cheaper and still provide the exact same type of fun and competition. Remember I wasn’t the one that started this post. 😉 Sponsors can look at the LO206 too for great drivers. Some would argue that the lo206 is a drivers kart and puts more on the driver to be good than buying your way into Rotax top splits.
Rotax doesn’t need to be this expensive to get into karting and to get a sponsorship. Why would the track be closed if they make more money with Renters?!?!?!?! That logic doesn’t connect with me. lol I mean if they make more money with renters why were they closed? Huh? I mean really, do they want to make money?
BTW Mike, it is Denton Texas. 😉
And the reason tracks charge owners 40 is due to the same cost they have to pay for renters or any other option. Why would you even bring this up? I mean we all still have to pay a price to get on track. What I am saying is charging others 250 just to get on track when the track normally charges 40 for the same this is a little BS. This is my whole point. Why charge 250 when normally 40 is charged for the EXACT SAME THING!!
Bitching about it could help fix the issue by letting people know there is an issue. I mean I want to race in the World Championship but I CANT due to how much $$$$$ you have to spend to even get there. How much is it exactly to get into a national event like the Rotax National Championship and actually be competitive? Please explain to me how much it really is if it is not 20k for just a competitive motor. Based on what I have been told cause I wanted to get into Rotax that it would be this much to go to a national event (entry fees alone are like 4k or something based on what I was told) and actually be competitive. I want to race real cars but can’t due to how much money they are. But based on what I am seeing a 25k spec car would be cheaper than a Rotax. lol
The price to get into karting in general is too high. I wanted to get into karting when I was younger (5-6). But my parents didn’t make enough money to get me into a competitive class so instead my dad built a kart and I raced it at my local track my dad made in a field next to our house. If I would have been able to afford it at that time I might be racing in F1 by now. ( lol I know, I had BIG dreams. ;)) The point I am making is the cost of entry is keeping people away from the sport that otherwise could be competitive. That is why I like the Lo206 so much. You can’t buy yourself to the top. With Rotax you just spend 15/20k and poof you have a fast engine that makes a little extra HP that will bring you to the top.
Don’t get me wrong. I had a blast driving a Rotax and think they are a lot of fun. But I am here to race and have close battles. In order for that to happen I have to spend a lot of money. Where as with LO206 I just have to free up the kart and make sure my driving is up to par and poof I am racing in close battles. They are both racing and they both have national events. One costs a lot of money the other doesn’t. Sponsors show up to both events just the same. Which one would you lean towards if you are on a budget?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc5iXlphMnQ Here is a Lo206 series that gets BIG numbers and has really close competition. Get this, the total amount spent to race is 1/4 of the price of a Rotax/National level event. I mean a Margay Brava 4.15 is in the race with a lo206 straight from briggs. Total cost (new) would be 4k. I know because I bought one this season.
Sir,
I do not post on public forums often but I do read them. I have seen your posted responses on this site and your opinion does not directly promote a great sport. In order to promote and grow this sport the promoters, owners and you, the competitor, must do your part and promote the overall positive aspect of Karting. If you race L206 only due to a price point, that is great but posting anything but positive information for other classes beyond your price point, is negative in nature. Racing any Motorsport isn’t cheap, period!!! Karting budgets range from $5000 per year to over $500,000. Respect them all and promote. If you want more racers, focus on the positive aspects of the sport and not your opinion. Thank you.
Rogerwow, people get upset when I show them how much they are spending on a kart when I have the same thing with the Lo206. I am not sure how I am being negative. lol You must be taking me saying it is more $$$$ as a negative comment. I am just stating facts and the reason I am not racing in it. I am also showing a different option. Can you show me where I am being negative? And saying that spending 250 instead of 40 is too much. How is that being negative?
If someone wants to spend 5k per year they will not be able to run in Rotax. It just isn’t possible. But they could run Lo206 and be able to win races. Now the people that want to spend 500k can totally win races and go to every national event. I am just pointing out how the Lo206 is a cheaper option than a Rotax. How is that being negative? From my point of view I am doing the public a favor and explaining the real cost so that someone can be educated in their decision on what to race.
You say I must do my part. What is that exactly? I race in both series here in Colorado. Do you? I have bought majority of my stuff locally. I practice at every track I can. I post on the forums letting people know how much a competitive Rotax is (which I am still waiting to be corrected on the price but haven’t been given real numbers yet) and how much a competitive Lo206 is. I voice my opinion that I think it is bs to charge a test and tune person 250 when they could charge 40 and still make the money as you keep forgetting the team members are already paying the 250 or more for their membership dues to the team. So this extra person coming to the track on a test and tune day instead of paying 40 has to pay 250. That is what I am calling out as BS. And yet I am told I need to spread a more positive feel to grow the community? What exactly does this positive feel to grow the community look like? If it is being quiet when I see issues that split the community like price I am not going to stay quiet.
Here we have two series that have great racing and yet I go to both and see a different set of people. Why is that? Here I am wanting to race and showing how much it is to race and I get bashed for it? Why? What have I said that has got people upset with me? Telling me I have to do my part? What?
If talking about price point is a negative subject than I bet that is an issue? See, put it into a different perspective. When you brake a rib it hurts. It has a negative tone to it as there is a problem but it just isn’t visible. Once you shed some light on it or poke it a little to make it scream you understand the issue. Price in all racing is a broken rib. I might not be able to stop everything but maybe this post will light a fire under someones ass to change it. This is after all a free country (I thought anyway). This is a public forum. I am happy to have these debates in person if you feel I am hiding behind a computer. Keys why I have my name and kart number on there. 😉 And yet, in person I have the best conversations. People are so nice! Why on here I say the same things and get bashed for it? Why?
Sir,
If you do not know who I am, you have not been to a drivers meeting in Colorado for the races I’m involved with over the last 5 years. I will not respond to your additional post as I have documented my point. I wish you luck at your national race(s) and a great rest of the year here in Colorado. L206 is a fun class as are the other classes that race like Rotax and shifter kart racing. Thank you.
RogerOh…Before I forget, I have 2 national level Rotax Senior motors for sale, $1500.00ea or $2800.00 for both. Both are fresh and ready to go, and I’ll throw in any spare Rotax parts I have as well.
Mike
@Mike Edwards wrote:
Oh…Before I forget, I have 2 national level Rotax Senior motors for sale, $1500.00ea or $2800.00 for both. Both are fresh and ready to go, and I’ll throw in any spare Rotax parts I have as well.
Mike
I have a championship level lo206 for sale $400. Crank is damaged but it still won. That is why it is so low on the price. It has won two championships in two years. Willing to trade? All joking aside. How is that motor so cheap? Was it competitive at the National level? Who drove it and where did they place? I am having a hard time in believing a 1500 motor will be competitive at the National level. But please correct me if I am wrong. Again, I will ask this, how much is a National level event for Rotax? I would like the price you would need to pay in order to place in the top 10 if you are a good enough driver.
And Roger, I know who you are. You question my involvement like you don’t know who I am, so I asked you a question about your involvement. Just like you did me. You provide your services to one series (You get paid, right?). What about the other? I am out supporting both (paying). You ask me to do my part. I ask you, why are you not at both series? Also I asked you what exactly was negative about my comments. You can’t give me the common decency to give me a reply to a legit question? The response of “I have already documented my point” yes, you have but I question the meaning which means I would like clarification. Communication goes both ways.
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