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Two day race = 2 days of ambulance, insurance, labor, brain damage, etc… I do not think that people are willing to pay twice as much for entry fees, pitt spots, pitt pass. This is not a SKUSA national event. It would kill the club races and what have you gained? People cannot afford racing now and you want to double the cost for what? Bad idea!!
I am having a major deja vu posting this as I think I posted something very similar a couple of months ago in a thread that disappeared, but here goes.
Classes:
I only have small kids so no opinion on anything other than Jr 1 and Kid Karts
Kid Karts-Stick with the Honda with REAL tech at each race. I am willing to pay extra to hire a tech person for race day and to dyno the race motors before the events so we have true spec racing in this entry level class. The key assumption in this class was that the motors would be pea-picked to assure equality of power and periodic testing of the motors seems to be a reasonable request.
Jr 1- Stick with the Honda but slow them down some to improve safety and reliability of the engine. The class was very competitive this year so I don’t see a reason to get rid of the motor. If the Comers want to race with us and score seperately, I am fine. The series is going to look very wishy-washy to go away from the Honda when it was written and implied that it would be the motor going forward for this class. People made the investment in the Honda’s with this in mind as well as dealt with some of the growing pains in figuring out how to work the motor via practice $e$$ion$ and race days. There is nothing wrong with this motor and this is coming from someone who 2 this year. Slow them down and we won’t lose any more as long as people don’t do anything stupid.
Again, let’s have REAL tech in this class that is stringent so we can have true spec motor racing.
I am neutral on the issue of 2 day events. We could do it, however, I am sympathetic to the track owners who would be asked to shut their tracks down and pay people for two days rather than one. Just pare down the classes and do the short practice sessions to keep the time down. Nothing is stopping us from practicing the day before the race if we want to.
I love the idea of a temp circuit, however, please, please, please, move Greeley to another weekend if possible. Memorial Day is out of the question for us as we make our pilgrimidge to Indy that weekend. BTW: Kudos to the schedule gods who did not schedule any races on the holidays. Please keep this policy for 2008, our marriages appreciate it a great deal!!!
Also, my vote would be for a very clear set of rules and regulations that everyone needs to adhere to (Competitors and Series Officials). For example: CSC Race #1 was a mess for both of these classes due to the weather and we did not adhere to the rules in our rule book. We all spend a ton of money and we should compete in an environment that is consistent in the interpretation and enforcement of the rules. This was by far the biggest area of frustration for us in our first year of competition.
Finally, we need to appoint ambassadors in each class that would be assigned to help mentor new people in the sport. They can show the newbies the ropes by spending a couple of days practicing together and getting the new racers up to speed. We helped out a few new folks when asked, however, we should have a more formalized process to help people get going.
With that said, we had a blast our first year and thank everyone at the tracks and the series that put on the races. Myself and my family will happily volunteer to help out in any way we can be useful to the series.
Sorry for just catching this. Yes there is a Town Hall Meeting on Sunday. Let’s say 9:30. Same hotel, probably same room, as the banquet.
Just so you guys know, Nothing for next season is set in stone. No schedule has been set, no classes have been decided on. So that means if you feel strongly about something for 2008, you had better come to the meeting and say your piece! If you don’t bring it up, you can’t complain about it later (well, you can, but good luck getting someone to listen).
See you there!
Angie
@Angie MacEwen wrote:
Nothing for next season is set in stone. No schedule has been set, no classes have been decided on.
I’m not picking on you Angie so please don’t take it that way. But in a way, I think this is a sad commentary on the state of our sport in Colorado. Most of us have already stated our opinion at various times on this forum and directly to the track owners this fall. I know I have and I know that many others have. By this time the track owners should be announcing the results, not asking for more input. They should already know what we want. Another meeting of table pounding and someone getting PO’ed and walking out is not what we need.
There are many karters who what to know what we are doing next year. There are many customers who know there will be price increases after the first of the year and they want to get their purchasing decisions made before then. Besides, what better present than a new kart under the tree this year. CRG has informed all of its dealers that prices will be going up on 1/02/07 and any karts ordered after that time will see increases up to 15%. All of the other major brands will be doing likewise.
I have an idea. Since all the track owners will be in town this weekend. What say they get together in a closed door meeting and hammer some things out. I know that a schedule may not be possible (both Brad and Stacey have to get their respective AMA SuperX schedules) but they can certainly get the classes and the basic outline of the CSC and club series done and published on Monday. We don’t need more fact finding, we need decisions.
I agree with Doug, there have been many post this fall addressing the same issues that probably are going to be addressed during the meeting and without a clear agenda this could be a waste of everyone’s time. I think we have something great going on here, I am sure there is room for improvement, but we need to provide some matrix to the track owner in order to assist them in the process of making decisions that will be supported by us … “The Clients”. Therefore what about creating a survey (Survey monkey) based on all of the known issues, class, weight, tech etc and let the field (US, the clients) respond. Then the decisions can be made with a more strategic approach rather than the shotgun approach.
Great ideas. I like the 6 race, 2 at each track format. I’m on the fence with drops, they seem to complicate the points. I agree with Brad on one day events. Two day events would probably hurt attendance. I’m also against a double points race. I fail to see what the advantage is? Why should one race be worth more than others? Again it could hurt attendance for those who can’t make that race and decide to only run club. Just my thoughts.
CSC comments:
By the way, these are my same wishes each and every year. Yes, progress is being made and we also need to streamline and ACT on recurring problem issues.
Too many classes. It’s like raising bunnies. That said, combine the small classes. Action and not talk. What’s the cut off number for DROPPING classes? What’s the cutoff to COMBINING classes. And, when you combine you should combine them via class and NOT combined times. And, if you combine (obviously TaG) you should have a quarter track distinction since there will be the inevitable complaint that X can’t pass Y because his engine has a completely different powerband. And there’s truth to that observation. Thank you for last year’s “fine” for wrong back number plate colours. Think that’ll happen again this year?
Tech in the lower classes. GREAT. That way parents know their kid got beat by a better driver and not engine. Put that dog to rest, please. If they’re willing to tech, they’re willing to pay for it.
Trophies to the top 5 in the lower classes. Give them something to aspire to. Not to just show up. It’s called competition. Get used to it. You’ll learn about it when you grow up might as well get a glimpse of it now.
Double the entry fee (or higher) if you want to race saturdays and sundayS, the track owners deserve it. And count me out. I have a career that needs my attention. I have no aspirations to make it to: NASCAR, F1, IRL, CHAMP CAR, WRC ETC…
One drop, someone has a reason to miss a race (holiday schedule, family matters, etc) they’re out of the championship battle for #1. They’ll QUIT vs. race the whole season. We all observed that this year and to be blunt, it was an absolute shame.
If you DO keep the classes diluted by having a lot of options and choices for the same age groups, then you need to rid Sunday of PRACTICE. Practice on saturday or midweek, whatever. F1, NASCAR, Indy and Champ don’t practice race day, why should we?
Benevolent dictator(s): Track owners, you know what we want and we want you to make a profit so you stay in business. Get on the phone, make the decisions and stick to it. We’ll either stay or go. You’ve done a great job in site improvements so make these decisions NOW so we can plan ASAP for next season. Doug, thank you for bringing out the delay due to MX as to why we can’t firm up our schedule now.
We are picking the MX dates on this Sunday at 1:00pm so if this kart meeting goes past noon I will be gone.
Jim and I have worked out what we are going to do with the club races and have discussed the CSC also. We still need to talk with Stacey and JB. I do not think there will be many changes with the classes.
Once we eliminated the practice in the morning we have been getting done by 3pm so I see no need to cut the classes. We did not add any classes to the day so I am not sure what you are talking about Mike.
I agree we should have a drop to increase participation later in the season.
I am going to make a minor adjustment to the Honda Jr1 engine to slow it down so that should not be an issue.
Tech is going to be a problem if we can’t find someone qualified. I talked with John Motley about doing tech for the CSC and he is interested and wants to know the dates. I think it would be a good idea to find someone now.
This meeting is for input from the racers but all of us track owners have heard from them all season so I do not think there will be any surprises Sunday.Faithanderic, the greely date can not be changed. The GGp is part of the greely stampede, and is just another activity in the week. We can not change the date of the stampede, so the race date IMO is unchangeable.
by Kart45 on Wed 12 12, 2007 2:32 pm
A. Each CSC event would be 2 day shows
B. 2 races at each track
C. 1 drop
D. make 1 race double points.
E. At the completion of each main event a number is drawen from a hat and that number represents a specific tech item. example #6 would be the cylinder head volume or CC. and this would be the tech item of the day for that class.
D. A title sponsor for the series.Personally I like Mikes (Edwards) ideas.
Seems to me the Csc has no “premeir status. It is just blended together with the club series now. With a hell of a lot of races to choose from! Why can’t we look at making this series a little more elite? We pay more for entry fee’s, can’t this go to making this a better series? Or maybe we should just all run the club series? The big difference between Club and Csc is a few racers from Utah participate and Grand Junction is included. It was said the Csc killed club racing a few years back. Nows it seems be shifting a little. Is the Csc financially healthy enough to be a premeir series? The racers really have no idea of what the money goes to and where the series stands in that regard.
Why can’t we have 2 day races? We spend real close to $400 per race day per kart to run the Csc. ($4800 per year in entry / parking, fuel and tires alone, in a six race series) I would be ok with running each of the 3 tracks 3 times for double races. (and make Grand Junction double points to get participation over the hill) Pay twice the entry but only pay the expenses for getting there one time. Don’t see what the difference is to the track. If we pay for an ambulance for two days back to back, or two seperate days. This applies to workers etc… Seems like 3 weekends of Csc racing would free up the club and Rotax dates. Freeing up more rental kart days too. Same money to the track owner. I don’t think this can even be compared to a Skusa or Stars National event?
Let there be one drop. Roman Dnf’d the first Csc race. We were done, we could have parked it for the year at that point. We raced out of respect and sportsmanship to the other racers and track owners. If you don’t allow a drop, your screwing up. See if spending $400 per day knowing your out of the running for a Championship will keep participation up. I understand, not everyone is going for a Championship, but if you’re running at the Regional (Csc) level. You probably are. I know the points are hard to calculate, but if you print it out, do some figuring, you can do it. Maybe some help from Angie, but it can bo done, I know.
Re: Karter meeting following the banquet
by Doug Welch on Thu 12 13, 2007 7:31 amAngie MacEwen wrote:
Nothing for next season is set in stone. No schedule has been set, no classes have been decided on.I’m not picking on you Angie so please don’t take it that way. But in a way, I think this is a sad commentary on the state of our sport in Colorado. Most of us have already stated our opinion at various times on this forum and directly to the track owners this fall. I know I have and I know that many others have. By this time the track owners should be announcing the results, not asking for more input. They should already know what we want. Another meeting of table pounding and someone getting PO’ed and walking out is not what we need.
Maybe things have been mentioned by the racers and have fallen on deaf ears. For example; we ran the Rotax series here and supported the complete series, even supported the series after clinching a Championship by running the last race and buying fuel, chain lube… whatever The Track had for sale, we bought from them, and did all year, to support the series and track. There is no mention of recognition for this series. Seemed a little gray to me. Do we get a trophy, gift certificate, an atta boy…Just sounded like everyone who wanted to go was going to get to go to the Grand Nationals. We would have gained better data durung practice days vs race days.The Gatorz series awards their competitor’s with a new fr125 package, or a free test and tune in a car or a free bicycle to the young ones, and so on. For next year, in my opinion, there are 5 drivers, who, if they choose to compete in Rotax Masters. Of these three of the 5 are going to qualify. Are only 5 going to enter? Will this series have good turn out? We considerd running a DD2 this year after speaking Doug about the package and it’s benefits, particularly to a heavy driver and speaking to theRamos’ at the Grands and Supernationals, regarding the coming popularity of the DD2 and the posibility of a Masters DD2. Then hear our local DD2 will run over 35 only. A true “Masters Class”? Not what Rmax will do, but what we will do locally. That leaves Roman out. Even if the DD2 will not run in conjunction with Rmax, it sure would be nice to rack up the laps in conjunction with future DD2 Masters competitions here and elsewhere. They don’t want to run with Roman. Rotax believes in a place for Heavy drivers. Oh well. Not a option, one entry gone there.
by Mike Jansen on Thu 12 13, 2007 10:20 am
CSC comments:
Too many classes. It’s like raising bunnies. That said, combine the small classes. Action and not talk. What’s the cut off number for DROPPING classes?
Tech in the lower classes. GREAT. That way parents know their kid got beat by a better driver and not engine. Put that dog to rest, please. If they’re willing to tech, they’re willing to pay for it.Trophies to the top 5 in the lower classes. Give them something to aspire to. Not to just show up. It’s called competition. Get used to it. You’ll learn about it when you grow up might as well get a glimpse of it now.
Double the entry fee (or higher) if you want to race saturdays and sundayS, the track owners deserve it. And count me out. I have a career that needs my attention. I have no aspirations to make it to: NASCAR, F1, IRL, CHAMP CAR, WRC ETC…
If you DO keep the classes diluted by having a lot of options and choices for the same age groups, then you need to rid Sunday of PRACTICE. Practice on saturday or midweek, whatever. F1, NASCAR, Indy and Champ don’t practice race day, why should we?
Tech all the classes. I love Mike’s idea of puling a number out of a hat and that’s what they look at that day, that class. We need tech and consistent tech in all classes, not just juniors.
I doubt Classes will be added Mike.
I don’t think trophys down to 5th is needed. We don’t even care about the individual race trophys. It’s the regional Championship we want awarded, and what we shoot for in the Csc.
I Loved having a temp circuit included in the Csc. That was killed last year. Not sure if the racers had a say in that?
Not sure if the meeting will amount to much. We don’t have a series that stands alone. It may be best to just have the closed door meeting. And you either fit or you don’t. You’re thoughts or opinions may not matter anyway. These decisions have / will be made without input from the meeting anyway? Right?
More importantly, we’ll have fun at the banquet.
Rick
@blink wrote:
Once we eliminated the practice in the morning we have been getting done by 3pm so I see no need to cut the classes. We did not add any classes to the day so I am not sure what you are talking about Mike.
I was concerned that there would be ADDITIONAL classes not status quo or reduction. Hey, if we can get done by 5 or earlier then WHO CARES how many classes there are. More entrants means more $$$ for the track owners. More $$$ means more on site improvements. Improvements mean garages, non blue toilets, restaurants, beer taps… 8)
On a side note which (still) boggles my slightly shiney, bumpy head and that is this:
wouldn’t karters rather race in a full field and experience the adrenalin of 18 plus karters coming to the flag versus 4-6 karters. Sell your old, antiquanted stuff and hop into the larger fields. Just my two pennies input… Let the floggings begin…Posted the information over in the GGP thread….
Rick,
I believe the two day race suggestion was for the 5 race series to remain the same but done in two days instead of one. I do not think they were wanting one weekend to count as two races.
All…
Brad I understand your point about ambulance help ect, my thought was to try and make the CSC a bigger event by having a 2 day show and make it a little easier on our friends coming over from the West slope.
We had a great time racing at the club level last year, on that note, maybe only 4 races at each track. This might enable some of the club racers to try a CSC race at some point.
In closing I’m not here to reinvent the wheel….Just throwing out idea’s.
Mikey
Re: Karter meeting following the banquet
by blink on Thu 12 13, 2007 2:01 pmRick,
I believe the two day race suggestion was for the 5 race series to remain the same but done in two days instead of one. I do not think they were wanting one weekend to count as two races.
Well…Leave it to me to stick my chest out about something I’ve mis interpretted! Must be the steroids?
But why not. 1 weekend equals 2 races? We have racers who say they have a professional life to maintain and would not race a 2 day weekend event, But suggests taking a weekday off of work / school to practice? I don’t get it? Same people who were practicing at Gjms on Saturday before the Sunday race anyway?
3 weekends a year with a full race Saturday and Sunday. After we’re done on (at 3:00) Saturday we could have a big pot luck and barbeque, limbo, mud wrestling or whatever.The rest of the year is for Club and Rotax. The 3 weekends are more of an show! We could easily set aside 3 weekends to run a 6 race series. And maybe travel to a few races, work on my house, take a vacation etc… It would free up 6 potential revenue days for You, Stacey and Jim.
Blink, just seems like the Csc is loosing some of it’s lustre. I hate to see it happen. Would like to see some kind of effort getting this series back to the regard it was once held. We were heading towards the same esteem as series like Gatorz, Prokart, Nor Cal and so on. Now just seems like a second series running nearly parallel with club series. Doesn’t mean as much.
I know the decisions have been made. But feel compelled to express my dreams for Colorado karting. If I’m off on the wrong tangent, I’m off on the wrong tangent!
Just my thoughts
Rick
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