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Stacey,
Do you mean stock motos in 125 novice or just spec engines either ICC or moto? I hope it’s the latter because I just bought my new kart with a TM and plan on running novice.My wish list would favor the 2-cycle classes and get rid of four strokes but I know that’s not going to happen. The one thing that I do wish for though, is to cut some weak classes so we can have 8-10 classes and not 13 like we do now. That way I believe we can grow the local scene so the Joe Schmoe coming into karting can understand it like Alan said in KS.
One plausible suggestion IMO, would be to get rid of the junior class(es) and restrict the engines in TaG junior so there is a difference in the TaG classes rather than age. The junior kids could have that much needed bridge from lower HP karts to the high HP TaG senior karts.
Taylor, That is what we need to know, is what racers want. Does the Novice only allow stock moto or include stock ICC.
in stock form the ICC produces more HP but most of those won;t make it to the finish line so it won’t matter he, he,What about JR-2 how many plan on running it this year, could it be replaced with a Kids Tag, such as the Mini Max or the Easy Kart or similar TAG karts .
What about semi-pro, who plans on running it if it is still here in 2005
Stacey,
I am looking to see a stock 125 Moto class, limited to only moto’s. I don’t believe this needs to be defined as a Novice Class. I think there are a number of experienced drivers who would like to move from TaG (senior/masters) to an affordable shifter class.
i think that the novice class should say Stock ICC in the rules next year unlike it did this year, where there was no difference between the ICC engine rules in PRO & novice. That could even things out for the moto guys in the class running the restricted carb and stock box against a full blown ICC.
Its not my class but i think it will make things a little more fair in that class.
KR
I also would like to see a stock shifter class moto only.
Much cheaper to buy and run.
Probably about the same as what I spent on a top tag package.
I do not think moto/icc can run together.
Hopefully this would not be a novice class, but a place for
a good to racer without to high a price tag.OK. I’ll step into the breach.
Since this a Championship series, let’s gear it for those who want to compete in the minimum number of events to win. For 2004 that was 6. Here is how the 81 drivers who raced in at least 6 events were classed.
Class # drivers
Kids 9
Jr 1 10
Jr 2 2
Sr 4 6
Tag Jr 5
Tag Sr 9
Tag Mas 10
Nov Shif 4
80 Jr 7
125 Nov 6
S2 0
Sr/Hv125 5
125P 10It seems obvious that we should drop the Jr2 and S2 classes. Those folks can still run local events. Also, if we don’t get a bunch of commits from the Nov Shifter we could drop that too.
As fas as adding to the Jr1, I ask why split the class? It was a large, cheap, great class. As for the one class only motor, my son had only one in 2004, we rebuilt once, and we sold it at the end for a total cost of $800. However, these Animals are making 14 HP at sea-level. Let’s build them per WKA with the restrictor. 59s at IMI seems too fast for 8-11 year olds (the old adult Yamahas ran 58s). WKA has these on 290 lb Karts for this age group, so we make up for the altitude with weight.
I would like to see the Tag Jr class be limited to Restricted motors like TAGUSA / SKUSA.
What about keeping the 125 Novice to the local events. Do we really need this for the CSC? We don’t have a novice class for adult TAG.
That’s it. We’re down to 9, 10 or 11 larger classes where the championship means more. Also, less classes means easier tech.
Like I mentioned last year, if you already bought something different for 2005, I don’t think its fair to expect the rest of us to include it. Please wait for the rules, and then spend your money.
Rod Whetstone
I would like to see the TAG Master class run at least a 20 lap main. From the numbers Rod presented, the TAG master class averaged just as many participants as the 125 pro class. I think it should get just as good of a billing. Do it on a numbers basis. If the largest adult classes for a particular event are TAG x and Shifter y classes then let them have the largest amount of laps in the final. It seems to me we all pay the same amount. I believe the TAG classes and the shifter class all have good racing.
just my 2 cents,
Tom
I think it’s crucial to have the shifter ladder and not get rid of novice or S2. There is too much of a jump in experience/lap times/expense from novice straight to pro. I do agree with Kyle on the rules for novice though, the novice class should be limited to stock ICC’s and maybe slightly modified motos to level the playing field and keep cost down from the likes of the pro class. The average lap time of the novice class this year was a low 53 and the pros pull high 51’s pretty consistently so we need the S2 class. With all the talk of the stock moto class, I think that the shifter classes will be taking center stage and the classes will be needed to accomodate the rush of shifter drivers. If it means having 9 classes instead of 8, I’d say it’s worth it.
I don’t think we need to focus on revising the shifter classes as much as we need to get rid of other classes.I would like to see a mini max class for jr1. That would make for one engine package that would last at least a season without rebuilds. I understand that one of the engine builders built illegal animals in that class, so those people are going to be out money for a new motor for next season. I also would love to see novice shifter continue, as I think the class will grow. Either way I will be having to rebuild comers for Stars, and a shifter motor for either SKUSA or I.K.F. for next year. No im not rich I just have priorities karts first eating and housing second.
Brian Moore
Father of Brandon #77 jr1 and novice shifterA point well taken above.
AJ has the track record at imi with a 51.0, and most pros qualify at 51 5-52.5, but some people that are faster then most novices, but still struggling sometimes should allow for a ladder system to progress their program through experiance on the track through races. I will side with Kyle Ray on the novice one, not my class either, but ICCs should remain stock, a decent stock ICC has 38-40.5hp, that is quite a bit especially for an entry level novice class, or kids moving up from 80s or Tags. I personally do not know motocross based powerplants really at all, but it appears that your average novice moto with a smaller carb, and stock ignition is getting a whomping from SP style ICC engines, so if the iccs remain totally stock and the motos have the same rules as CSC had this year (why change from success) then they will be fairly even, maybe even give the motos a ten pound weight benefit, as is a moto is lighter then an ICC, that might be feasable to make the motocross powerplant more competitive in Colorado. I have seen a lot of motos out there, they shouldnt have to do much to remain competitive, let alone buy an ICC. S2 should allow modified ICCs and Motos, maybe allow a weight benefit for the motos, with the PI boxes and such for the motos, but run harder tires or someother form of rule to keep the speeds reasonable for people trying to take their time and climb a ladder to the top. As for Pro 125, I have said it basically, do not change it. Leave the ICCs and Motos alone, open tire, 385 lbs (moto guys should speak out if they want a ten pound weight benefit like SKUSA allowed them), no FC engines, and NO PI BOXES or larger the 30mm carburetors on ICCs.PS Pro 125 Kicked ass this year, thanks to everyone who made it possible for me to race this series and the competition was intense, see AK qualifying results in August, and IMI results from August as well, the field stacks one tenth at a time, I loved racing this class in 04, I WILL BE BACK!!!
It is impossiple to tech a “stock” ICC from a built ICC in several cases. While most Pavesi and TM engines are not ported at the factory, most of the other ICC engines are ported. For example, we ran stock CRS ICC engines and they ran with the best of the built ICC engines. They were ported at the factory. No stock moto would come any where near running with them. For practical purposes, there is no such thing and no way to tech an ICC engine for stock. Stock moto, mild moto, or what ever you want to call it, can not run competitively with any stock ICC and should be run seperately.
Actually the TM engine is somewhat done at the factory, they offer a built version of the K9b for about 500 more. Look at the January (i think) issue of KS where the (stock fiberglassed reed) TM was dynoed at 40.00hp, the CRS in a later Spring issue at about 40.5ish, and vortex at 40.2ish, pavesi had 38, i belive those motors are intended to go to builders anyway, at least thats what BM said in his article. All of these motors had 16-16.5lbs of torque. The CRS and the Vortex appear to be more built from the factory, I think the Vortex runs Carbon reeds as its HP hopper (those are big in HP gains).
PS the Tm dynoed at KS was an 03, the 04 is faster.
I also agree that a “stock” ICC is probably not going to fly as a class, and most people that are looking for a stock moto class would not even consider buying an ICC. It seems like the only true home for the ICC motors is in the “unlimited” classes such as pro and senior/heavy where they race against pro-level moto motors.
If a stock moto class was going to work, a spec. would need to be set for A pipe, A silencer, AN ignition box, stock carb, etc., in addition to the standard no porting allowed, all stock parts, etc. If these specs could be set, and all the shops stock the proper parts, I see no reason why stock moto wouldn’t work.
At that point, we have only three moto classes:
1. Pro
2. Senior/Heavy
3. Stock MotoAll the new guys would start in Stock Moto, get beat up on by the stock moto regulars for a while, and potentially move up to pro after they gain the necessary experience.
Also, I would like to see YHB tires as spec. for the pro class. It just makes things easier to deal with for the shops and racers….
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