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Has anyone used or seen someone successfully use the Fasttrack rail system from rubbermaid? I saw it at home depot and looked very simple and convenient. They have a nice tool box that uses the rail system as well. It weighs 48lbs without tools. Anyone know how strong the frames are in a Haulmark Passport 6×10? Ive have googled everything way i can think of and cannot find a definitive answer.
Thanks
Ken
Thanks CO Karter for the V-Nose info. I will mess with it in the next few weeks and post pics as i go along.
Charlie I will be in touch thanks for your info. I have a 125 honda shifter. I bought it earlier this year and was thinking to have the lower and upper rebuilt and fluids replaced so i can have a better idea maintenance wise of when things need done. Start a log with it all fresh. The seat is way too forward for me. My knees are almost at the top of the steering wheel bent and it is very uncomfortable. I tried adjusting it a little with no luck. I’m not a big guy but the guy i bought it from used it for his son who i think was shorter than me.
Ya i have looked at the e-tracks and i think i will grab some of those and at least work on strapping the kart down that way. The V-nose part is killing me. That is kind of where in my head i picture a little work bench with a cabinet or two above on the wall. I just can’t envision how to get started on the bench!
I need to at some point have my engine serviced this winter, top and bottom. As well as a new seat installed. If anyone has any good references in the Denver area that would be cool!
@Rodney Ebersole wrote:
Ken, The 1500 used bike motor needs a few things that add up to a fresh kart motor.
New crank and rod
new top end kit
new SKUSA pipe
99 ignition system
97 6 speed gear box
power valve stuffer
silencer
fuel pump
carb help
somebody that knows how and what to look out for when assembling “Stock Motors”To spend most of your budget on a new chassis for a new driver is just as questionable.
The risk wrecking/bending up a new chassis is higher than blowing up a new motor.
Your budget well spent for your first year would best spent on fuel, tires, race and practice fees while tearing up some used chassis and motor.Thanks for the info! Ya thats all im doing this year is practi ing. Getting some seat time at all the local tracks. I have an old tony kart chassis and i think a solid motor now. After the summer i would like to have the motor redone upper and lower by someone and have the chassis looked at and adjusted. I know the seat is not right for me. Feels uncomfortable and it feels like my knees are bent alot.
@Jeff Welch wrote:
Swedetech has been building stock Honda engines for a long time and they are very, very good at it. They charge what they do because people will pay for it. They’re also including some mounts and such (coil mount, exhaust flange, etc.) that may or may not be included in the other prices you see.
Are they better? That’s debatable. I will say that like all the other classes in karting, chassis setup and driver will make a MUCH larger difference than the name on the side of the engine.
I just dont understand how you can be any better than someone else building something that is stock and identical to someone else. The carb tuning and jetting i get. But a stock engine is a stock engine.
Me and buddy are having a debate because he says its stupid people spend thousands on a stock honda 125 when you can buy a dirt bike half the price and pull that motor and have the exact same engine, ive heard a few people say the chassis is more important so that makes my friends argument even better.
If my engine blows today practicing why wouldnt it be more economical and smarter to just search locally for a used 2001 cr125 dirtbike for around 1500, take motor out, clean it, maybe replace the upper, add new fluids and install on my kart? In a sport where nearly every one makes mension of costs and how expensive it is, we run out and buy $3-$5k stock engines.
My argument to him is that it just doesnt seem that easy. But i have nothing else because im uneducated on the matter, just that it doesnt make since otherwise 75% of all the racers on tight budgets would do it. I dont feel like he is out smarting the entire global karting community. Is a dirt bike motor to shifter kart a simple swap to meet skusa spec? Or are there more costly upgrades or adjustments you need to make to make it race legal?
I guess what im trying to say is i keep hearing chassis are everything, that its 1)chassis 2)driver 3)engine for importance.
If im on a $7k budget next year why wouldnt i buy a brand new best of the best chassis for 5 or 6k and then just search for a 2001 honda dirt bike on craigslist and clean the motor up and mount it? How would that be any different than the guy with a stock engine in the pit next to me that paid 3500 for his? Would an old 2001 dirt bike motor be more unreliable or produce less power than a new one built from an engine kit?
And I am not interested in doing this or looking for a motor just curious for educational purposes.
@Greg Welch wrote:
The stock Honda engine we use is 99 cases, 96 transmission, and 01 cylinder. This way, we get the 6 speed transmission instead of the 5 speed which has been sold since 97+
You can buy a brand new kit engine from Honda HPD that has all the parts needed to assemble a kart engine minus the power valve plugs. Plugging the power valves on an 01 is tricky to say the least. I believe the kit sells for around $2,400, then you have to assemble it, add power valve plugs and install, add electronics, carb, pipe, silencer etc. They end up north of 4k typically.
$1,200 for an old dirt bike isn’t comparing apples to apples. That is used market, hammered tired, and a category that is now extinct in dirt bike racing. If people still raced the 125s they would be worth more. If you built a brand new engine for that bike it would cost the same as building a brand new engine for the kart
Thanks for the info. Have just been trying to get an idea of why people would buy a Swede tech stock motor for $4775 when right below it on websites is a non swedetech motor for $3060. I dont under stand what they are paying $1700 more for, a couple swedetech name plates on the engine? Its all skusa spec stock so they cant really be using anything different than the other engines can they, all using oem honda parts un altered? Same with other builders. They will use on their site the same basic stock 125cc engine kit and charge $3800. But others charging $3100.
Just more curious if its marketing to the person that thinks because they spent the most they got the most or if there are other factors that make a swedetech or musgrave engine more cost effective or worthwhile. Would a 125cc
Shifter engine kit built by me or a friend that has basic engine knowledge be less effective or produce less horsepower than say if a reputable mechanic or swedetech did it?@Doug Welch wrote:
At the CKT race at Podium earlier this month
LO 206 Light 24 racers started the main event.
LO 206 Heavy 12 racers started the heat race.LO 206 racing is alive and well in Colorado.
Nice!!
@jdavis-403 wrote:
@EGunderson wrote:
@jdavis-403 wrote:
I find it odd how everyone says they lose money having a Club race like CKT/CSC. And turn around and say Corporate events and rentals gain money. Isn’t a club race a corporate event? This is excluding races sponsored by the track in question. I am specifically asking about events like CKT and CSC. Why are they costing the track money when rentals put wear and tear on their rental equipment? Shouldn’t CKT and CSC make MORE money than rentals and on par with Corporate events? I would really like to see the math in this regards. I may have some recommendations in how to make this profitable. I mean I pay $85 to race 30 laps in one day. Test and tunes varies from $40-$50. Rentals IIRC run around $30 or so for 10 or so laps. How many of those do you get in a day? What does Corporate events run? The math you want to do is compare a CSC/CKT race day profits to rental and corporate events. If there is a discrepancy from one to another raise the price on the lower option to line up. It just seems to me that tracks are making excuses to not run events when really they dictate the price. If people are not showing up maybe re-evaluate. I know we have a lot of smart people here but what I have been hearing from Track owners is making me think we need to re-evaluate our priorities. I would really like to see the real numbers to understand exactly what the problem is.
The cost of insurance for all participants, officials, and track staff is a large chunk of the cost to running a race day for most series. In addition, staffing costs, materials cost (just for example think how much it costs to print ~200 schedules for a day!), etc, it adds up. At the end of the day, at least locally/regionally, most karting series aren’t out to make a killing financially. Tracks in Colorado are great at working with racing series to put on good race days, but no one is walking away with millions.
Insurance, officials, and track staff. Those items in my opinion should be covered by the track already with their staff and their insurance. You are using the tracks resources when you are at that track you should be able to use ALL the resource including staff and insurance. One would think that the insurance is covered due to the track has you sign the same form when you do a test and tune so I know they pay for it. If the Club is paying for insurance on top of the other then there is some serious stealing of money from the insurance companies as insurance should already be covered by the track insurance.
In regards to printing 200 schedules and other materials. That isn’t covered under the track that is covered by the club. The club has membership dues that you pay at the start of the year. That should cover all those expenses. The race day fee ($85) should cover the cost of that track not obtaining the money from rentals. I am still looking for the hard math though. Saying these things I can cover in the fees we already provide. Just trying to understand how the track is losing money on this when they should at least break even (from a normal rental day) or come a little ahead.
It just seems to me that insurance companies are double charging the club and the track for the same coverage. The track staff should attend/run these events as it really is essentially a corporate event (which track staff should run those events). Also, think about it this way. Corporations having an event at the track doesn’t have to buy insurance. They just sign the form at the track that already has insurance. See what I am saying there? And all extra material and other Club staff help running the event should be paid via the club membership and part of the race fee. This should leave enough for the track to cover everything else. Still feel the money we spend should cover everything. I would love to see the hard math to show exactly where the track is losing money.
I just have to agree with Davis on not understanding how a race day wouldn’t be a huge day for any track or owner. At least from my opinion that there should be a more structured and easier system in the state. Just running basic numbers I can not, even playing devils advocate come to a scenario where a Sunday of rentals would be more profitable or exciting for a track than a Series coming into town. Unless of coarse as i mentioned before it seems to be, that a series rolls into town and has low turn out because most people already raced last weekend at a different track.
An 8 race series at 4 tracks, 2 races per track per season.
$100 annual membership fee. The 4 tracks split the membership fees.
$40 Saturday practice fee and $85 Sunday race fee (negotiable, just using as example)
As Doug mentioned in the glory days it was normal to have 150 racers turn out for a race. So we will start with that number for 2018
150 sign up for the league coming to $15,000 split 4 ways letting each track receive $3750 for the season. This can be used for whatever they need to help promote the event they will hold for the 2 races. That’s $1875 they will receive for reserving the track for a race Sunday. Keep in mind like at IMI. They have practice Saturday for all the racers but still allowed people (like me) with their own kart to practice who were not racing, so they still had that revenue.
Say out of 150 members 100 show up for the series race at Centennial , IMI or whatever you choose for the example. For Saturday 100 pay the $40 for practice/tune. That tracks in $4000 for the day JUST from the track fee. Not including purchasing parts, fuel etc. whatever the track offers. Sunday the 100 come back for the Race day paying the $85 bringing the total in at $8500 for the day PLUS whatever else is purchased at the track.
On a 100 racer turn out weekend a track is bringing in $12,500 just for the practice and race day fee. On top of the $1875 from the annual memberships totaling at $14,375 plus track purchases and possibly/Hopefully track advertisement, sponsorship. I just can’t come to grip with being told it’s not worth it financially for a track to hold a race. They do it successfully all over the country.
This is all hypothetical but absolutely realistic giving a simpler, easier to follow Series. I just started following karting in CO and was confused just the first month seeing on 2 different sites 2 different night races at Centennial. I couldn’t tell if it was 1 site for the actual race and 1 promoting it or if it was 2 different night races for 2 different series. Then a message went out saying 1 of the night races was moved to day and i saw someone on this site confused about which was which as well and asking for clarity.
When its structured better and turn out is more noticeable things like promoting the race to the general public and racers dieing for the next months race begin to happen. Other wise it just seems it will be the same old same old, tracks splitting turn out from multiple series. 1 track feeling the backlash with low turn out do to the racers that chose to race in a different race 2 weeks earlier spending their budget there.
Just something to consider. But i do think a reliable well planned out series could be HUGE for local tracks. Financially and by bringing the sport closer to people like the party renter guy.
Ya that would be awesome to see 150 racers out there! My only observation is like you said, 50% have time and resoarces, but for what? Which series are they participating in? There could be 150 current racers now and if they are all competing in the CSC then whats left for SBR or CO kart tour and vice versa? It just feels spread thin. When i was down at sbr end of May, the owner Lee was hosting an event the next weekend but he said it will be low turn out if any come at all because CO kart was at IMI that weekend. Its like the different series are stepping on eachother and trying to share/split the limited amount of racers available at the moment.
Just feels like if there was 1 series and 1 schedule the turn out at each race would be what you were mentioning it used to be.
That 40% you mentioned is a lot of racers, nearly half, that dont have the time or resoarces for a full season, so they are probably picking 1 series over the other. There just doesnt seem to be enough racers to have enough local series to be picking and choosing from. Plus its just over complicated, hard to follow, hard to keep track of. I had to have 3 different pages open last night online to look at 3 differeng series sharing 30 go 40 racers, was just annoying.
I agree with your bottom line for sure! Karting seemed to have been bad ass here 15 years ago
@stacey cook wrote:
I agree with Mike no one is intentionally cheating. Mike is one of the best and has always been more than helpful checking anything for us that is in question which includes checking our emulsion tubes, squish etc.
We have so many fast kids in Colorado right now and it unfortunately is really sad how low the turnouts have been. I don’t know what the real cause is but would like to hear why people are not showing up. So many people that love the sport are trying to do the best they can to give us all a place to race and do their part for very little if any compensation. When they finally get tired and give up what are we going to do then?
As a track owner it makes zero financial sense to hold a karting event right now. If we didn’t love the sport and the people we would not hold a single kart race at GJMS and instead focus on rental and corporate events which is what pays the bills at most facilities.
Greg now has rental and corporate events up and rolling and i believe they will run it professionally and like it should be which means they will be so busy with rentals and corporate events that financially it will make zero sense to support any racing. If that happens and both GJMS and Podium are gone what will happen to the racing? I believe karting in Colorado is in terrible trouble and the next few years are going to be interesting.
We all dream of the old CSC days when we had 150 entries and incredible racing with 30+ 125 pro shifters and all the classes running with big fields, now everyone sits on the sidelines and talks about how fast they are then gets on the internet and complain about everything.
Lots of incredible people in the Colorado karting community it is to bad we all can’t work together and leave the drama at home.
Stacey Cook
GJMSFrom just getting into the karting scene here in CO i would say cost is a huge reason for low turnout and the “racing” aspect of the sport is not there, out side the small community. Was the same in D.C. when i lived and karted there off and on for 10 years. They advertised and aimed for the early 20 year old partier or the middle aged father that should get out with “the boys”. Look at the huge bright NYC style billboard in front of Unser Indoor kart in Denver. All it advertises is “bachelor partys” and corporate events. Then you look at the prices and it turns into a once in a while kind of thing, maybe a birthday and if the girlfriend gets you a gift card later in the year. Where as the actual loyal racers are the ones expected to shell out hundreds if not a grand a month to enter races/ practice, tires, fuel, parts, travel.
Its unfortunate there isn’t a more efficient or helpful way to hold the races with out putting nearly all the cost burden on the racers. I.e sponsers or something. The problem is like the guy Greg you mentioned, he now has rentals and corporate events up and running. Now he has that overhead. Now the local racers will carry the burden if he wants to hold an event. There’s not much balance in the U.S. with actual “kart racing” and “go-karting”, it is why our karting game is so weak compared to say Germany or most of Europe for that matter. I grew up in Germany while my dad was in the army and went from karting all the time and it being a sport to moving to D.C. where it was nearly impossible to financially and was more like entertainment.
I don’t know its just my experience and opinion. I have gone out to IMI a few times and loved it, people are great, track is great. Same with SBR,had a great time. I am hoping to get into a race or 2 this year so hopefully that helps 🙂
Oh and i do not mean Greg is a problem, just meant the scenario in my opinion is a problem for racers. Where tracks get so wrapped up in the rentals and corporate events it leaves heavy overhead losses for them to hold races unless they charge alot to cover the costs they have now taken on and rely soley on
Awesome thanks, if im back in town by then i will be heading over to watch! Weather should be great, hot but atleast dry!
@Doug Welch wrote:
We used to be on the DFM factory team. They were imported by a guy in Evergreen and sold through Shifter Kart City. When JB moved his shop to Bandimere, he changed the name to Action Karting. The motor on that kart is most likely a built Honda. That means the head has been altered to take the Honda RS piston and a spacer has been added under the cylinder to correct the port height. At the same time, I would bet that the reed cage and intake manifold were changed out to straight parts rather than angled like stock.
If I’m correct, I would convert it back to stock top end. All you need is a new head and a stock piston and ring. It’s real simple to do. If you want to drag it out to IMI this weekend I can point you in the right direction. I will be doing tech for the CKT and would be happy to help. As far as the Tony kart, Greg at Unser is the man to get you setup.
thanks for all the info everyone!
Doug Sorry i was just able to log on, wish i would have seen this message i was at IMI Saturday with the DFM! Great info thanks a lot. I would like to have it put back to stock moto if you are correct and i think you are, A man i spoke to looked at it for a couple seconds and said its built, he pointed to the air filter and carb area and told me why. I was thinking about taking the engine off and having it rebuilt (to stock) and using it as a spare and maybe getting rid of the DFM chassis. The tony kart seems to be in good shape so i would like to start using that one full time to get used to it. Felt good the couple times i have taken it out, seat might just need adjusting.
The next race at IMI is July 30th, is there a guideline online i should look over to make my kart race ready safety and spec wise that you know of?
Thanks again for all the info!
