Confused about the stock 125cc shifter engine prices

[Ken Zawodny]

Why do the skusa spec stock honda 125cc shifter engines all cost $3k or more when you can just buy a 2001 dirt bike with the same engine for $1200 and take the engine out? What exactly are you paying for from a place like Musgrave, swedetech, or sharkshifter? Just the parts/labor of assembly? Its all stock so where exactly does the $3400 price tag come from? Is there tuning, what would they tune on a stock motor?

[Greg Welch]

The stock Honda engine we use is 99 cases, 96 transmission, and 01 cylinder. This way, we get the 6 speed transmission instead of the 5 speed which has been sold since 97+

You can buy a brand new kit engine from Honda HPD that has all the parts needed to assemble a kart engine minus the power valve plugs. Plugging the power valves on an 01 is tricky to say the least. I believe the kit sells for around $2,400, then you have to assemble it, add power valve plugs and install, add electronics, carb, pipe, silencer etc. They end up north of 4k typically.

$1,200 for an old dirt bike isn’t comparing apples to apples. That is used market, hammered tired, and a category that is now extinct in dirt bike racing. If people still raced the 125s they would be worth more. If you built a brand new engine for that bike it would cost the same as building a brand new engine for the kart

[Ken Zawodny]

@Greg Welch wrote:

The stock Honda engine we use is 99 cases, 96 transmission, and 01 cylinder. This way, we get the 6 speed transmission instead of the 5 speed which has been sold since 97+

You can buy a brand new kit engine from Honda HPD that has all the parts needed to assemble a kart engine minus the power valve plugs. Plugging the power valves on an 01 is tricky to say the least. I believe the kit sells for around $2,400, then you have to assemble it, add power valve plugs and install, add electronics, carb, pipe, silencer etc. They end up north of 4k typically.

$1,200 for an old dirt bike isn’t comparing apples to apples. That is used market, hammered tired, and a category that is now extinct in dirt bike racing. If people still raced the 125s they would be worth more. If you built a brand new engine for that bike it would cost the same as building a brand new engine for the kart

Thanks for the info. Have just been trying to get an idea of why people would buy a Swede tech stock motor for $4775 when right below it on websites is a non swedetech motor for $3060. I dont under stand what they are paying $1700 more for, a couple swedetech name plates on the engine? Its all skusa spec stock so they cant really be using anything different than the other engines can they, all using oem honda parts un altered? Same with other builders. They will use on their site the same basic stock 125cc engine kit and charge $3800. But others charging $3100.

Just more curious if its marketing to the person that thinks because they spent the most they got the most or if there are other factors that make a swedetech or musgrave engine more cost effective or worthwhile. Would a 125cc
Shifter engine kit built by me or a friend that has basic engine knowledge be less effective or produce less horsepower than say if a reputable mechanic or swedetech did it?

[Jeff Welch]

Swedetech has been building stock Honda engines for a long time and they are very, very good at it. They charge what they do because people will pay for it. They’re also including some mounts and such (coil mount, exhaust flange, etc.) that may or may not be included in the other prices you see.

Are they better? That’s debatable. I will say that like all the other classes in karting, chassis setup and driver will make a MUCH larger difference than the name on the side of the engine.

[Ken Zawodny]

@Jeff Welch wrote:

Swedetech has been building stock Honda engines for a long time and they are very, very good at it. They charge what they do because people will pay for it. They’re also including some mounts and such (coil mount, exhaust flange, etc.) that may or may not be included in the other prices you see.

Are they better? That’s debatable. I will say that like all the other classes in karting, chassis setup and driver will make a MUCH larger difference than the name on the side of the engine.

I just dont understand how you can be any better than someone else building something that is stock and identical to someone else. The carb tuning and jetting i get. But a stock engine is a stock engine.

Me and buddy are having a debate because he says its stupid people spend thousands on a stock honda 125 when you can buy a dirt bike half the price and pull that motor and have the exact same engine, ive heard a few people say the chassis is more important so that makes my friends argument even better.

If my engine blows today practicing why wouldnt it be more economical and smarter to just search locally for a used 2001 cr125 dirtbike for around 1500, take motor out, clean it, maybe replace the upper, add new fluids and install on my kart? In a sport where nearly every one makes mension of costs and how expensive it is, we run out and buy $3-$5k stock engines.

My argument to him is that it just doesnt seem that easy. But i have nothing else because im uneducated on the matter, just that it doesnt make since otherwise 75% of all the racers on tight budgets would do it. I dont feel like he is out smarting the entire global karting community. Is a dirt bike motor to shifter kart a simple swap to meet skusa spec? Or are there more costly upgrades or adjustments you need to make to make it race legal?

I guess what im trying to say is i keep hearing chassis are everything, that its 1)chassis 2)driver 3)engine for importance.

If im on a $7k budget next year why wouldnt i buy a brand new best of the best chassis for 5 or 6k and then just search for a 2001 honda dirt bike on craigslist and clean the motor up and mount it? How would that be any different than the guy with a stock engine in the pit next to me that paid 3500 for his? Would an old 2001 dirt bike motor be more unreliable or produce less power than a new one built from an engine kit?

And I am not interested in doing this or looking for a motor just curious for educational purposes.

[Eric Gunderson]

Getting a shifter engine to rev at the RPMS it experiences on a kart vs. a bike is a challenge, revs sustained for longer on a kart than a bike often. The accessories you need for the kart application is another costly point.

If you’re balking at the price of the engine, maybe a shifter engine isn’t the #1 choice for you right now? 206…Rotax…TaG, there are other options, many of which are still pretty epic to drive.

It should be noted that there is also the Open Shifter option, which features racers with more ‘budget’ engine builds…usually..

[Rodney Ebersole]

Ken, The 1500 used bike motor needs a few things that add up to a fresh kart motor.
New crank and rod
new top end kit
new SKUSA pipe
99 ignition system
97 6 speed gear box
power valve stuffer
silencer
fuel pump
carb help
somebody that knows how and what to look out for when assembling “Stock Motors”

To spend most of your budget on a new chassis for a new driver is just as questionable.
The risk wrecking/bending up a new chassis is higher than blowing up a new motor.
Your budget well spent for your first year would best spent on fuel, tires, race and practice fees while tearing up some used chassis and motor.

[Ken Zawodny]

@Rodney Ebersole wrote:

Ken, The 1500 used bike motor needs a few things that add up to a fresh kart motor.
New crank and rod
new top end kit
new SKUSA pipe
99 ignition system
97 6 speed gear box
power valve stuffer
silencer
fuel pump
carb help
somebody that knows how and what to look out for when assembling “Stock Motors”

To spend most of your budget on a new chassis for a new driver is just as questionable.
The risk wrecking/bending up a new chassis is higher than blowing up a new motor.
Your budget well spent for your first year would best spent on fuel, tires, race and practice fees while tearing up some used chassis and motor.

Thanks for the info! Ya thats all im doing this year is practi ing. Getting some seat time at all the local tracks. I have an old tony kart chassis and i think a solid motor now. After the summer i would like to have the motor redone upper and lower by someone and have the chassis looked at and adjusted. I know the seat is not right for me. Feels uncomfortable and it feels like my knees are bent alot.

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