Why can’t Colorado support a state series?

[Eddie Tseng]

Chris, wasn’t really talking about four strokes in general. Was mainly speaking of a Tag and Shifter open class. When we had an open class structure with PPKRC it was the largest of any class in the state. Roger is correct, you would be leaving a whole bunch of people out.. Also, a four stroke shifter is less expensive than a stock moto to build. You can disagree with that, but with a few exceptions I have personally built all the four shifters currently running.

[Eddy Wyatt]

Chris

Absolutely agree with everything you said. However, if we exclude the minimum to run option and give up on having a state run series on the front range similar to the old CSC, we have not gained a thing. WE exclude CJKC and most who have supported PPKRC.

Just my belief that if we end up with an expanded version of the Pro-Kart Challenge that is exclusive Rotax and Stock Moto many will not be financially capable to buy new equipment/engines and also foot a $600.00 plus race event weekend. Been there, done that. You may be the top dog at the local and/or regional level, but when you’re at the Nationals against the factory teams it’s completely different. That’s when you realize that spec racing does not exist. Fact is, there’s never been spec. racing and never will be! :loco

For those of us that are trying to build karting in Colorado, bring new folks to the sport, expand it to all the available tracks, we’re looking for more affordable ways to accomplish/ expand that vision to tracks beyond SBR. This can only happen if the karters support that vision. Doesn’t look like it’s going to happen so far.

Have a Great Weekend All!

Respectfully,
Eddy
:co

[mweatherman]

All,
Seeing some negativity in the most recent posts. Lets keep this moving forward in a positive manner. If there are racers out there that feel what is being talked about will exclude them unless they pony up some $$ to get new equipment, then lets talk about what everyone is running and how may racers. Correct me if I am wrong, but TaG includes multiple engine types, not just Rotax and Leopard. My point is, can we make the classes work for as many as possible without adding 200 classes.
Lets get some rough numbers together on how may people are running different packages so we can see where there would fit.

[Cris Schureman]

@Eddy Wyatt wrote:

You may be the top dog at the local and/or regional level, but when you’re at the Nationals against the factory teams it’s completely different. That’s when you realize that spec racing does not exist. Fact is, there’s never been spec. racing and never will be!

I respectfully disagree. Classes based upon National Class Structure offer everyone an opportunity to race within the same rules. You can set up your Kart for local racing and then take the same set up to a regional or national race if you desire. Nationally, there have been many privateers that are not on a “Factory Team” running out front at their local races and having success nationally as well.

Spec means there are limits to what you can do and rules you must follow. To be successful nationally you have to have everything working perfectly-Driver,Chassis and Motor. And even then, Lady Luck has to be shining bright. Based upon what I have quoted you saying, you make it sound like everyone who is successful nationally is operating outside the rules and part of a big team. I know for a fact that is not true.

Racers who are serious about the sport are not interested in having a hybrid version of a couple different race organizations or no support from a national organization. It is clear SKUSA and Rotax are the organizations we need to build a program around. I am sorry, but my take on what has been described as “non inclusive” is racing that needs to stay at the club level for the most part.

Combining SKUSA (Shifter and TaG) with Rotax is the way to start. It targets the majority of those who would support a State Series and offers structure that is desperately needed right now in Colorado. I am sure if the numbers are there, a couple of open classes could be added.

Cris

[Tony LaPorta]

Brad and Cris, you have it all wrong!!

Here is my proposed class structure, I think EVERYONE will agree.

1. Stock Honda Master
2. Stock Honda Jr
3. 4 stroke shifter
4. TaG Master
5. 4 stroke shifter master light
6. TaG Sr
7. TaG Jr
8. 4 stroke TaG shifter with dirt kart body work
9. Mini Max
10. Micro Max
11. Electric 4 stroke golf cart
12. DD2 Master
13. DD2
14. 8 Gear 64 Horsepower 4 stroke shifter with 18 inch rear wheels
15. Kid Kart
16. 50cc Pit bikes
17. Mechanics race (on foot)
18. 4 stroke kid kart

Thats 18 classes. Now while the two most popular and SUCCESSFUL karting organizations (SKUSA and Rotax) have less than half this amount each, I think its the perfect number. :new

Oh and I forgot one,

19. Open Class

I gotta go shovel the snow. It just keeps piling up, sort of like this the great ideas in this thread.

[Chris Wogrin]

Mike, thats my point exactly, we just can’t have to many classes, there’s just not enough time in the day, I think for the most part tag classes do encompass most the popular engines today.
Eddy I’ve done the national thing and know how expensive it can be. We just do it for the fun of it. I just know that my sons like to race and they like to race other people.
I have to spend money on tires regardless if they race each other or 20 guys, so I have to buy my tires from someone.
I’m just glad someone is making an effort to do something!
Eddie I’d like to compare cost’s if you can show me that a 4 stroke shifter cost me less than the stockmoto’s I build and then show a place to race them, I’ll listen all day.
Here’s to hoping, Cris I agree!
Chris
PS I’m heading to the store to buy some track shoe’s for that mechanics race! You guy’s are going down
PSS I apologise if I sound negative as well

[Eddy Wyatt]

Gents

Most of you all know what it cost to run competively at the level we’ve been talking about. Simply believe that if the state series cost are not managed it becomes very difficult or impossible for some to support/play. I made a proposal that mirrored last years SKUSA class structure + Rotax. Don’t know what that has to do with WKA, 18 classes or anything else out of context post. However, if the majority that have an interest in what we have support a RMPKC program as a front range or call it a state series, then so be it. It will happen.

Sorry Mike, I’ll try to be more positive……

I’m a patient man, waiting to see how it all turns out.

:jail

[Don Dempster]

I have to agree with Chris in that SKUSA and Rotax are the start to building a succesful state/regional series. With there TAG Masters/Seniors I belive there are 4 engine/weight packages available to run. We have some very fine S1-S5 Shifter drivers here in the state. I belive there were over 70 Rotax Drivers here in the state last year running. With the Local option that SKUSA has they could bring in the CJKC Briggs karts. That could put us over 100 karts if we come together to support this series. You need to have defined classes and spec/rules in order to have this run smoothly. I have been racing my son here in Colorado for 3 years now and over the last two years have raced every track with the exception of Bandimere more then once each season. I am probably the only one that makes regular trips over to race at Grand Junction from this side of the hill. The facts are these are the the groups I see that have the numbers. With the exception of the 4 stroke shifters Eddie and 5 or 6 other guys in the Springs run I have not seen karters that would possibly be left out. As Mike said log on speak out let us know you are out there.

[Scott Falcone]

Update:
Well, after lots of work from several folks behind the scenes there will be some information available very soon. Just remember it’s taken us several years to get to this point and I feel we can only grow and get better going forward. It will be very important to be positive and supportive and work together in the future. Keeping an open mind and a positive attitude towards Karting in Colorado will be very helpful and important. It’s imposable to please everyone no matter what happens. So again please keep an open mind and a positive attitude. Karter’s in Colorado, we will need your help from every corner of the state. We will need to continue to grow this amazing sport, but we can’t do it, if we don’t work as group by bringing everyone together and showing up to race. I will do my part with as many sponsors as I can find to help with the financial side of the racing and prizes, but again I can’t do it by myself. If we really care about Karting in Colorado than we need to put the all the BS behind us and come together and set an example of some of the greatest Karting in the country.

Thanks in advance for all your support going forward.

Scott

[[email protected]]

Big Thumbs Up on your post.

[Cris Schureman]

Please post details. Most of us need info so we can plan/ change plans accordingly.

Cris

[Mike Jansen]

wow, my first post in…. years

I like the attitude towards combining this and making it a win win for all track owners. CSC WAS THE BEST SERIES EVER and it was due to classes with tire restrictions and multiple motor options (in TaG you had, Biland, Leapord, Rotax, Motori, Sonic, etc, etc) When there are multiple tracks involved certain engines had an advantage and slightly less at the next venue. Regaurdless, isn’t that just like NASCAR, FORMULA 1 and INDY??? Scott Falcone and others talented like him can and could take the engine equasion and pretty much make it competitive anywhere run. As long as we don’t see engine changes at different tracks.

Keep moving forward. AJ, you’re right, I think EVERYONE has the shades taken off and are seeing Colorado Karting for what is was and what it can become: Big fields with great competition and getting back to fun minus the ego and politics.

[Cory Ross]

I am just starting out and love the idea of a state series. I do not want to just race at one or two tracks. I want to race at all of them. In racing mountain bikes I loved always going to different courses and trying to be fast. It gets boring racing the same track over and over. If done right the state series can become the series to race in for more then just racers in Colorado. Lets build up karting here and produce some of the top drivers in the country. It would be great if others looked at a list of entries at a national and not knowing the driver but seeing they are from Colorado means they will be hard to beat. We are lucky to have so many tracks in this state and they all have their own characteristics. Anyone have a contact to get a race at the track by Aspen? No one will have an advantage there due to having hundreds of more laps then others.

I really like the idea of multiple engines allowed in the classes. Each engine has its own characteristics and will be an advantage or disadvantaged depending on the track. I think racers just need to commit to one brand engine for the series. This way the driver that can afford multiple engines does not gain an advantage. Can the same even be done for tires? Restrict tires based on durometer not brand, just make drivers commit to a brand for the season? I just feel the fewer changes drivers have to make from what they run at their club races the more likely they will be to come to the races. Having these multiple brands could also make the series more appealing for sponsors. Why sponsor a race or driver if everyone already has to use your stuff?

[[email protected]]

@Cory Ross wrote:

Anyone have a contact to get a race at the track by Aspen? No one will have an advantage there due to having hundreds of more laps then others.

Linkus and I would, but then again we don’t race. 😆 (…and Brad’s just too darned old, HA! :rotate: )

I have little doubt that some racers would only do the State series, and that most everyone in general would keep coming back year after year because they wouldn’t tire of the same track all the time. The way to be fast at circuits around the country is to learn to tune for several type of tracks to begin with! In turn Colorado karting grows and especially on a national level. Everybody wins, the shops, sponsors, karters, everyone.

Great post Cory, and everyone. Keep Going! (… and going, and going…)

[Scott Falcone]

The drivers have spoken and the track owners are listening. Now it’s time for all us to stop talking and start or continue supporting the local tracks and the local series, that is ran here in Colorado and Utah (Miller Motor Sports).

This next weekend would be a great opportunity to dust off the kart and go to TTAC and race for the first time of the season here in the Front Range. This is a great opportunity to prepare for the upcoming races in Utah and others here in Colorado. I haven’t seen all the race schedules here in Colorado, but there is the first race of the season next weekend at TTAC (Rotax-Shifters). There will be the first Skusa State race at Miller the following weekend.
Sorry, I don’t know the other Colorado track schedules; otherwise I would mention those as well. I’m sure you can inform us with a reply post.

After a lot of hard work, communication, and planning Colorado drivers will partially get what they wanted. Two more tracks to race at this summer with Skusa here in Colorado thanks to Jim and Brad. We are on the way to hopefully getting back to a State Series/ Mountain Region Series here in Colorado and Utah. With more available time next year we will be able to add one or two more tracks to the schedule; that’s the plan.

I realize that it’s costly and budgets can be tight, but please try your best to support as many tracks and series that you can this year. I can help by providing practice Mojo tires at the local races for very cheap- or in some cases free if you show me and the track owners that you’re willing to support them.

There are several drivers going over to Utah for the first RMPKC in Utah at Miller Motor Sports. This would be a great opportunity to catch a ride with some of the teams making the short 8hr trek, over the hills to one the best karting facilities in the country. This track is awesome and the facility is at another level and it’s a must see! Please email me if you need some info on teams heading over there and if you need a ride, I will do my best to help you out.

Thank you in advance, to everyone making this upcoming season a great one.
Scott

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