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I think that 7 CSC races are more than enough, especially for teams that are competing in other venues such as Nationals etc. I also would be very much in favor of having a drop race. We missed one due to a motor problem this year that couldn’t be resolved in time and went from 3rd to 6th in the season points……I know that there are arguments in both directions, but from purely a “personal” perspective, it was devastating to us.
Okay I will go with YGK’s only. I believe the KSD max Challenge stated YGC’s only.
So brad, YGK’s are okay right! for TAG/CSC/Club/Max Challenge????
John, make sure you are getting the new animal 2 with billet flywheel. Briggs improved the flywheel, flywheel cover, crank, and rod. You can get it for $475 from TSRACING.com. Then get a pipe kit for $61, a pump kit for $18+, and a filter for $15. IMI should also have all this stuff, plus no shipping charges from them. If you get an animal 1 don’t pay as much because the upgrade parts are $215. If you want more setup info on the aminal, start another thread here and I along with the other animal lovers will update it.
James
#45 / Animal@Rich Vito wrote:
So brad, YGK’s are okay right! for TAG/CSC/Club/Max Challenge????
YGK as I understand it is the same tire as the YGC. The YGK was legal last year, so it should be again this year.
Thanks James and everyone else who has called or emailed. I really need help with this so that I don’t waste alot of money and time.
John
@Rich Vito wrote:
Okay I will go with YGK’s only. I believe the KSD max Challenge stated YGC’s only.
So brad, YGK’s are okay right! for TAG/CSC/Club/Max Challenge????
Rich,
The YGK is the ONLY legal tire for RMC competition, as someone previously stated the YGK and YHC are the same compound tire, but if you have previously run a YHC tire in RMC competition it was technically an illegal tire. Hense the reason there was not a YHC to be found at nats in Denton.
So the CSC should really have not issues running both tires.
At least one drop with 7 races or at least 2 with 10 races would be good for us, If you want to attract more people from outside Colorado the drops are a must. As far as 125cc shifters go keep the rules the same as last year EXCEPT CIK rules for ICC engines in 125 pro.
Jon
Let’s be careful about engines in Jr 1 for the CSC. WKA, IKF, and Stars all run either the restricted Briggs Flathead or the Comer80. Then beginning last year IKF added a restricted Animal. These first two are established motors that are plentiful and well known. Here in Colorado we added the Gas Animal per adult IKF rules in an attempt to make a lot of people happy. We got lucky in that the Gas Animal and the Ethanol Flathead make within about 0.0 to 0.5 HP of one another.
Now there is talk of adding a new engine that makes 2 HP more. That’s 17% more. Who wants to compete in ICC with a 45HP motor when a motor making 53 HP (17% more) is legal?
When we tested a nationally prepared Comer80 (9 HP) against our Ethanol Flathead (11.5 HP) at IMI we lost 5 seconds! Therefore I do not believe we can run these motors in the same class competitively. We can not close that kind of gap with weight. The same will be true with a 13.5 HP motor in this class.
I urge people to not compare times among different engines with different drivers. There are far too many variables to make these comparisons meaningful. Our driver, for example, has taken 4 seconds off his CRE time driving the exact same equipment. What changed was his driving ability and our set-up skill. If someone would’ve used his earlier times as a comparison they would’ve drawn the wrong conclusions.
Please, let’s leave well enough alone. We have a great competitive Jr 1 class with the ethanol Flathead and the gas Animal. While there will always be a new and enticing package available, we do not need more engines or clutch classes for the 8-11 year olds in CSC. What we already own is very good, and competitive.
Rod Whetstone
I thought that the Pro 125 rules for 2003 worked out pretty well. We proved that ICCs and Motos can be competitive with each other. Some track configurations (long, high RPM straights) favor the ICCs, while short tracks favor the torque of the motos. Maybe a big carb on an ICC produces more pure hp than a moto, but that alone doesn’t get you a win — time will tell. Of course, you could always give us moto guys a break by allowing big bore kits!!!! 😀
Rod, Thank you. I agree with you 100%. The MiniMax, as wonderful as it may be, is just not compatible with the engines existing in the Junior 1 class.
I have one other concern….
If there was an ‘understanding’ between track owners regarding this, it would be nice to let the racers know about it. Since this is the first we have heard about it, it sure doesn’t give us much time to consider going that route ourselves. What does a MiniMax setup go for? How many of them are around the state? IF it really is going to be considered a Junior 1 motor, then I think a true test would have to be done to compare them to the other set ups. Put a top notch Junior driver in each and I think the gap between the Mini Max and the Animal would be huge. We would want to see the results of such a test even before making a decision on what to run. We certainly aren’t going to bother refreshing our Animal if these kind of changes are happening. I don’t think it is fair that the motor is thrown in, and we just have to accept it.Angie MacEwen
Yep, I agree as well with Angie and Rob.
The WF motor is a nice package as well, but that doesn’t mean it should be allowed in the Jr I class with the other aproved motors.
The animal is experiancing some growing pains. Like James posted earlier, to be leagl in WKA or IKF next year every one is going to have to update to at least the new flywheel. This does take away some of the interest I had with the animal, as this will be the third time I haven had to replaced the flywheels on just my flock of animals.
The new price on the New animal along with the needed extras to get it on track make the WF motor even more appealing. Gee a class of 15 hp TAG motors for $800- $1000 and not one kart dealer in Colorado is promoting it. Instead they push a $2300.00 motor and wonder how much weight to add or how to restict it to fit in somewhere.
All of these motors are being used in the US, it is up to us to figure out which combonation would be in the best interest in getting karters new and old to race.
The old flathead is hard to beat, as far as the number of available cheep motors and parts to make them go. The only problem with them is Briggs wants them to disapear and is making that happen with every stock rod they now ship out. What is CSC’s stance on the billet rod issue in the flathead? WKA’s new ruleing is to let the local tracks deside this on there own.
I do not, at all, think that the flathead is the answer to large numbers of kart racers in the fewture. It is just still the most available motor in the country that has been used for kart racing for years and it is nice that the CSC is continueing it’s use in thier seires.
I will admit that as an addicted user of “industrial junk” I have been looking to see what will be in the junk piles for years to come and I think the 4 stroke OHV will be there in numbers unlike a kart specific motor.
O-well, Happy New Year!!Hey freezeman,
Greg Johnson is proposing a change to the 15 and old 4cycle classes that includes the Briggs World Formula. Basically, the methanol animal will go with the wazooms and in its place will be a new Limited Mod Animal / World Formula class. The World Formula per IKF at 15hp, $1000 complete package, will allow none engine people to mount/tune and run. The Limited Mod Animal will be 15hp as well and allow the folks who like to build motor enjoy the sport their way. The Limited Mod Animal will be methanol, tillitson 383 carb, no tech intake, 308 Cam, billet rod, no tech valve train. These choices are the lowest cost adult and teen classes in Colorado. It is a good growth path for up-and-coming JRI and JRII racers that do not want that big TAG or shifter HP just yet. Plus, the parent tuners can use their 4cycle skills as their racers progress.James
#45 / AnimalJamies, It sounds good. I have been hearing of Gregs efforts in this.
I would put a valve lift tech on it as there are many ways I would increase the rocker ratio with no valve train tech. Also stock valves. Spec the carb as any tilly with the 383 venturi size or smaller, as to not exstink all 2003 and older carbs.
What are you going to race? I do enjoy the punishment my Briggs racing has given me and I will more than likely be racing one this year. Yet, I am a little tired of racing against small or even no feilds of other competitors.
I agree with Gregs idea on the mod package, mainly because if we look to WKA/IKF or even F200, the rules just don’t look like they are written to get the most Bang for the Buck when your buying your BP parts to build them with. I do really like all the attention Briggs has put into there Motorsports department with the animal and WF, even the new Yamaha 200 F and Burris’s F200 efforts. But whats up with all of them going back to gas rules? When the cheapest HP mod we have ever had is pouring in $2.00 a gallon meth.
Just too many choices, I got to get off this thing, going to the ice pond today to test a WKA Open in hopes of prepairing for Extreme Ice Kart Racing 1/22/04 at Loveland. http://www.icespeedway.com
The insanity never stops!!Freeze, I will talk to Greg about your suggestions. I am going focus on the CSC in the Limited Mod class for 2004. My 2003 season got messed up many different ways 😡 I could never get to the track. I understand what you mean about the 4cycle kart count. TAG definitely has the count but its more HP and cost than I want. I’m hoping that the 4cycle class redefinition with the WF will get some new people interested. Good luck on the ice.
James
WOW!! My apologies for not responding sooner… my only excuse… Holidays. I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
First, has the meeting been set in stone so to speak?? It just has to be getting close according to JB?s initial post and besides we can discuss a lot of this there too (I hate writing).
The Honda motor suggestion: I understand where you are coming from Angie especially now that I bought Conner the Animal motor for Christmas, and now I am reading about this MiniMax which is the first I have heard of it. As Doug mention about my suggestion of Honda motors; those were some of my motives since money is an issue for many of us and it is my understanding from reading and talking to others you can do more for less money with a Honda than a Briggs. (Besides it is my understanding that we are the odd balls here in America. Everywhere else in the world in four cycle karting, Honda is the dominate motor not Briggs.)
This MiniMax issue is very interesting engine-role reversal. I would have loved to run the 80cc Comer but in my opinion it can?t compete with the Briggs at that weight limit set, and to be fair I think they should drop the weight of Comer 80?s so they can be competitive. Yes, I know that someone brought up the fact that in the final CSC championship race a Comer took third place, but I believe that had more to do with driver?s skill than motor. At every other race we attended last year, no Comer placed in the top three within Junior 1 (Maybe that has to do with drivers skill too, but I believe it is a HP and torque issue). Now, it sounds like this MiniMax has more HP than the Briggs and will do to them what they are doing to the Comer. If it is true that the MiniMax will run within the Junior 1 class this year and it does have more HP, then don?t we have to address this with weight and/or restrictor plate so that it is truly competitive again?? I really hope that they leave everything the same and run these in a different class since I now own an animal. Maybe we can start saving money now to get one of these MiniMaxes for next year.
To John Ferguson, I think if you and your daughter want to run in the Kid Kart class that is great!! Depending on the size of your daughter you may be fighting a weight issue and if she ever does get bored in that class you can move her up to Junior 1 class.
Regarding Kid Karts: it would have help me and other ?new karting fathers? to this class last year to have ?guidelines? to look at, and so I have written some up and had two other Kid Kart dads look them over. I will post them in a separate kid kart group for those who are interested. Remember, I am not trying to upset anyone, but to help out beginners to this sport, and since we were total beginners last year and thus I know what it feels like, and since we won?t be in this class this year so I have no self-serving motives, my only intent is to help the other ?newbie? dads to this sport get up to speed faster than I did.
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