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Graeme—I was wondering where you went; sorry to hear you got out of racing karts; good luck in the future!
Do I hear 30 laps?
Now the shifter guys want 25 laps. Lets extend the race days into night time racing and mount headlights.
I got it, lets change the formats to endurance races–say 5, 10 hrs.
Don’t get me wrong I think there is some validity of increasing laps per each race, but be reasonable. Go from 6/8 laps (heat/final) to 10-12/14-16 laps.
:argueRich,
It’s always fun to try an make a point by going beyond the reasonable. :rotate: I think anywhere between 15 to 20 laps is reasonable. I do not quite understand why the pro shifter class deserves the most laps of any class. Just because they choose to spend the most on their equipment shouldn’t necessarily correlate to number of laps. On race day, we all spend the same amount to enjoy the fun of racing on that particular day. :cheers:
I think the largest class should have the greatest amount of laps. It would be an incentive to get the numbers out.
Tom
PS –>If the pro shifter class is supposed to be the show, then they should run the main at or directly after the lunch break so everyone can watch. I enjoy watching them race. I noticed last year that many people had already started going home by the time they were griding.
I sometimes do enjoy eating my desert first, but one should always save the best for last. If we had fans they would go home after the Pro race.
What TAG rules are going to be in place? 2005 TAGUSA including new weights?
We all talk about supporting our local tracks. Well lets see, Brad is the owner of possibly the most popular kart track in Colorado. He also holds 1/4 th of the CSC races. He is trying to become a successful importer/distributer of a newly developing kart specific motor. How many other states let alone tracks have one man with this much interest in makeing kart racing more popular?
I don’t know of all the facts of how TAG USA tuned Brads 2005 Bilands to a “competitive level” with a bunch of lead. But I do know that if it was a penelty driven procedure and the motor has a hard time being competitive at the new weights, the penelty is a slap in the face of Colorado Karting.The way it is now is just right for any other state that has an importer/distributer in there back yard. It’s going to take a lot of wins and run time to make up for the differance in convinceing a new karter to get one here that takes two pit gorrilas to lift, initally more expensive, and isn’t welcome to race in some events.
I’m not a TAG racer, so I have nothing invested in what happens with the Biland in TAG racing. I would like to see Colorado slap back if the penelty of lead wasn’t just. Sence Brad does have some pull in writing the CSC rules we use I think it could make Colorado a pretty Biland freindly State if he would just impose the Colorado Biland State Weight Rebate Bill. :cheers:I don’t really care about the Biland issue since I don’t own one. Was more curious if the 10lb across the board increase was going to be in effect. Since you brought it up though, I think the Biland penalty was just and that cheating should never be tollerated, it doesn’t matter what the brand is. If the Bilands can not overcome the weight this year I’m sure TAGUSA will reduce it next year. At least that’s the way I hear the system is supposed to work.
Yep, I have no bone to fetch. ” The System” must be working as TAG seems to be growing.
I always have sort of liked the “Outlaw” “non-systematic” theam Colorados Tracks have been known to have in the past and just thought maybe this would be a good way to keep up that tradition.Freezman are you kidding? I sure hope so. The outlaw and rules applying to some and not others is going to be the death of this sport in Colorado if it continues!!!!
Brian Moore
” The outlaw and rules applying to some and not others is going to be the death of this sport in Colorado if it continues!!!! “
Being outlaws and having our own rules doesn’t mean we would have unfair racing. We have always bent the national rules to fit our own preferences. Just one example,Where alse in the US does the jrI get to run with out restictors when all the national rules call for them?Which would be more deadly to the sport of karting here in Colorado?
A TAG package imported from California that is allowed to race with less weight than a superior TAG package sold here in Colroado.
OR
A superior TAG package sold here in Colorado that gets a weight break in our state races from the national “systems rules” ?If you don’t think it is superior than why does it need that extra weight that “The System” says it does?
I would like to see one of our own track owners making some money and supporting the local racer. Rather than an out of state company making the money while supporting there local racers.
I would feel the same way if it were some new highzuit 4 stroke shifter motor that Stacy Cook was trying to develope. Shure Biland made a mistake and nationaly Biland seems to be getting penelized pretty hard for it. I do still wonder how many other brands of motors were running nonapproved parts. What happened isn’t the first time it’s happened and wont be the last. Yet I seem to remember that when a person used illegal parts in a race the racer was Dq’ed. I have never seen a manufacturer receiving a penelty that effects all there existing customers and fewture sales. But things change.
The TAG USA “System” has worked well at getting a bunch of new power plants in the hands of racers, and getting all them racers on the track at one time. To me however the same system also is just right for the manufacturers to keep playing the game of, the motor of the year search and which motor for which track. Not much different than 2 cycle super stock in the late eighty’s. :cheers:Interesting debate. From my perspective it is the “outlaw” nature of Colorado’s rules that have created so much reservation for my family to get invovled in kart racing in this state. In particular, I can’t understand for the life of me why Sr Tag motors are allowed in the Jr Tag class. As the president is fond of saying, “That doesn’t make any sense!”. 😀
Seriously though, I sure hope this is fixed in 2005! If not, I suspect it won’t be long before the “outlaws” decided Sr Tag motors should be allowed in the Cadet Tag class. Heck, why don’t we just put kids in 100 HP, 1000lb karts? There have to be limits (rules) to help make racing safe, fun and competitive. It makes sense to have HP progression as drivers grow, mature and develop their skills. It doesn’t seem smart to put 30+ HP in the hands of 12 year old novices. It seems much smarter to me to keep limits on HP and allow drivers to learn to “drive” and worry about HP when they reach certain age brackets. With the current system, a driver can race an engine package in the Jr. Tag class for three years and get to progress to WHAT when they reach 16? Yeah, nothing. They are suck with the same engine options if they want to stick to the Tag class. I bet they won’t be around long. So much for promoting karting in Colorado.
It is also important to remember that Colorado is not in a vacuum. I just read on this site in the last two weeks of two Colorado youths who have qualified for participating in two separate national events. That is a wonderful achievement and underscores how integrated local and national racing could/should be more integrated. It would be very good for karters, and thus karting in Colorado, if the rules locally were the same as the rules nationally. I sure hope we take a step closer to this in 2005.
My point exactly. Outlaw or whatever you want to call the rules here in Colorado cost those of us that race national events added expenses, more testing, and no rule book which to go by. If you want to say download the rules and you will have them thats false. Exceptions keep getting made to those rules here in wonderful Colorado. I for one would like to see Jr1 motors and karts run by national rules, and with a kid in that class my vote should count for more than someone without a kid in that class!!! If there are no rules in black and white for this upcoming season you can count on us not being part of that “outlaw” racing. As far as the Biland issue goes how could they find them illegal, from what I read Brad Linkus is the only one capable of teching a Biland. Wow sounds like a sure way to cheat since no one else is smart enough or have the tools to tech.
Brian Moore,
Father of Brandon Jr.1 mini max? and novice shifter or maybe nothing here in Colorado!
Brian I totally agree Colorado should be on the same rules as the rest of the country at least in TAG. From juniors to masters, the rules work and that’s why it’s growing. As for people making money in karting selling motors, well sell another brand if the one you carry isn’t selling. That’s basic supply and demand it was unfortunate that some people were either incompetent enough not to understand the rules or stupid enough to think they wouldn’t be caught. Either way it’s done and if I were a dealer I would definitely shy away from that brand and move to something I could sell. The outlaw concept does sound like fun but it will kill karting, there needs to be a progression in classes so people can have something to aspire to.
OK, I do see your points too. Please understand I was not talking about making any rules up for JR classes. Anybody with kids racen has a much bigger bone to fetch than I do. One rule I would like to see enforced a little more is the age breaks for kids racing in adult classes.
One quite normal thing I see many racers complain about is not having some written rules. Even when there are national written rules available, just by joining the national orginization that writes them they will still complain that nobody has given them the rules. I am cheap too, but you wont here me complaining about not getting something for nothing.
There is plenty of potential karters in Colorado for booth “system orginized” racing and anti system non-orginized outlaw racers.
For either one to judge the other as to which is more fun or better to do is not right or possible.
I have been in karting long enough to know that hanging your hat on any one national orginization can be fun, yet even there rules can have “that doesn’t make any sence” theam to them as well.
How many Briggs blocks have you blown up while tring to follow some national rule of using a stock rod? That rule was nuts, yet I followed it with my wallet for years.
As far as kids aspiring to race cars. Shure it’s nice to see a couple of locals getting that chance. I raced in Marshalltown Iowa for a number of years. The Johnsons were owners and operaters of the track back then. I see the Johnson Boys are now envloved in that same car thing that was mentioned on an earlier post and home page. Are the Johnsons still envolved with there local kart track anymore? I don’t think so.
A lot of karters think there go-kart is going to take them somewhere. As an old fart racing karts, I know that I must take my go-kart somewhere to race it, and it ant going to take me anywhere. To make karting a better steping stone for father son teams to use to get to where they want to go, isn’t on the top of my list, because I choose to race karts not cars. How is the loss of father son teams to car racing a benifit to karting?
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