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I can be a moderator and a bouncer if you’d like. I’m up for the challenge. And Rushy had a good point about tech.
IMO All we need to do is tighten up the CSC not reinvent it…
OK, Curt, you know exactly what buttons to push to get me to start typing.
@Curt Kistler wrote:
….Angie has done a wonderful job in creating the CSC…….
I did not create the CSC. Three track owners ( Brad, Stacey, and JB) with the help of Doug Welch, organized the first year of the CSC. That was the first year I published the Colorado Karter newsletter. Cole was racing an Animal that year, his first year out of Kid Karts. That was 2003, and Cole got a cool aluminum steering wheel award. This is our 4th year racing in the CSC! Cole turned 10 this year. Go ahead, cut out the kids. In 2004, I became more a part of the organization, stepping in to help with the administrative stuff. I have been involved in the “evolution” ever since.
I totally agree that things should continue to improve. I will take my share of the responsibility for the things that haven’t gone quite right. In general, I see that the CSC has made strides in the right direction every year of its existence. Attendance is down this year, in part to too many races, and in part to the economy in general. We are not the only place with that problem.
The number of races has been discussed by the track owners, and a 5 race series is what they are talking about. One at each track and one temp course. Again, this is discussion. Which classes? That is also being discussed, but dropping the kids has never been brought up. And not just because I am in on the conversation. Part of the glory of the CSC has always been its encompassing everything from Kid Karts to the pros and masters.
I may be the one listed principle of the CSC? How that came to be is another story. Yet, the CSC is still ?run? by the track owners. They are more than just an advisory board, they ARE the board. Major decisions are discussed and agreed upon by the majority of the track owners. If you would rather lay the blame on me for any of the problems that have come up, fine. I know I am not perfect. Back when I started getting involved, it was because I knew that our family was going to be in this sport for a long time, so I may as well jump in and try to help make things better. Maybe I am too involved now.
I am interested in what the racers are thinking they need ?fixed?. Exactly how much track time is ideal for race day for each class? How long of a main event do you want? I know that the 80s do 15 lap mains at IMI, and they couldn?t go much longer if they wanted, without running out of fuel. What are YOUR ideas for a class structure? Let?s get specific with suggestions and complaints. What series decisions do you think you should be more involved in? What awards do you like the best? from the tracks and from the series?
:peace
Angie, For us at GJMS the Kid’s classes are the most important.. That is were alot of our future racers hopefully will come from.
The CSC was started by the 3 legitimate track owners, Stacey, JB and Brad, now there are 4 with Jim. It is still run by the 4 track owners, not Angie. Angie is an employee who does most of the real work and her input and insight is always welcome. The CSC will not be run by the racers or kart shop owners. If George wants to get into the CSC it will be decided on by the 4 track owners that are in the CSC now, not by anyone else. So far George has not contacted any one of us about joining the CSC. George’s plea for a meeting should NOT be looked on as the end of the CSC or the beginning of something new. We will continue the CSC and make minor changes as necessary to make things better. George and Rich make things out to be more desperate than they are. George does not run the CSC and his call for a meeting is only so that he can come prepared to suggest that we all go with his program, the WKA. He will not even discuss what his ideas are on this forum because we all know what they are and have known what they have been for years, this is nothing new. George wants to have a meeting so that the track owners can be run through the ?gauntlet? as he stated. No one will run me through a gauntlet of racers and lobbyist from his club for their own ideals or Georges. George will have to play by our rules if he ever expresses an interest in joining the CSC in the future and he will not dictate how, when and where the founding members of the CSC will have their meetings. All of the CSC track owners are open to suggestions by any racer or shop owner, this has not and will not change but we as track owners will have the final say as to what will or will not happen with the CSC. In our conference call at the beginning of the year we all new that if we had 9 races for the CSC the club races would suffer. At the time we did not know if Jim would have his track done so we decided to just include THE TRACK and see what would happen. This is no surprise Rich; the only surprise is you still do not have a job after a year. Well Jim did finish THE TRACK and what we predicted did come true for the club races and the racers for the most part are only participating in the CSC. Now we are all talking together to define just what we need to do for the CSC and for the club races for next season. We will continue to monitor this forum for input from racers and anyone else that has an OPINION. THE CSC IS ALIVE AND WELL AND WILL BE EVEN BETTER NEXT SEASON AND SO WILL THE CLUB EVENTS!!!
I really like running the CSC series because it’s the most competitive series with the largest fields that you can run in Colorado. I’m favor of tweaking it to continue improving it as opposed to completely revamping it.
I just got back from the Rotax Grand Regionals and one of the things I really liked there was the amount of racing time we got. We had 3 heats, a pre-final and a final, spread over 2 days. At first I thought it seemed kind of silly to have that many races to determine the starting positions for the final, but after it was over I found that I really enjoyed all the racing. There was just enough time between sessions to get the kart ready for the next session.
Eliminating the morning practice in the CSC races and replacing it with an additional heat race would be one way to get us more racing time. Anyone who is competitive in a CSC already has done the testing and knows the setup for the CSC tracks, so the morning practice is not particularly useful. An additional heat race would be more fun and give an additional chance to score points. Besides, this way Mike might actually finish 20 race laps 😀 Another alternative would be to eliminate the practice and just have one heat and the main, but make them longer (say 15 and 25 laps respectively). Of course, under either scenario you would still keep the qualifying session.
Charles
BY the way, even though I mentioned the Rotax races were spread over 2 days, I am not advocating that for the CSC. I was just expressing a desire for more race laps on a CSC race day.
Charles
Brad,
That is no different than any sanctioning body. Listen to the customers (participants) then do what is best for your business. The participants will then vote with their wallet. Clearly they voted against the club races this year. I would suggest the CSC (track owners) look out for them selves and hold a race at each track, which would be 4 or 5 races. Not allow any drops. Hold a club race the weekend before with the track configured as it will be ran on the CSC race. Let the temp races be held as one off races, non points races. Try not to schedule on another kart related race and not on top of each others club race. Widdle the classes down to decent number.
What got us hooked is going to your track to rent then showing up on a race day. The classes were well defined. Mark was 8, he had one choice of class to run. That class was the flathead briggs class. There must have been 25 of them out there. The trophys mean’t something at that time. Steve was 5 he had one class to chose from. Kyle was 13 he had the choice between 80 shifter and a briggs class. The point is it was easy for a newbie to choose what to do. It was basically done for you. Mark and Kyle could go to all 3 tracks that were running at that time and run their kart. It was easy.
Rick posted once that he would pack his crap up in the dark if it meant everyone would get their laps in. Thats a good attitude, but it shouldn’t happen.Just my 2 cents worth.
Bill
@cgordon wrote:
Besides, this way Mike might actually finish 20 race laps 😀 Another alternative would be to eliminate the practice and just have one heat and the main, but make them longer (say 15 and 25 laps respectively). Of course, under either scenario you would still keep the qualifying session.
Charles
Someone take the bullseye off my back, PLEASE….
I second the elimination of morning practice and replace it with another heat race.
I would say keep the heats to 8-10 laps max and make the main the real show. IMO a heat race should be used to improve your position a place or two if you made a mistake qualifying and NOT used as a place to lose it all either.Bill’s comments are spot on, Bravo! Where we got the dilution of classes I don’t know but, “if you build it they will come” is the correct attitude. Same with the CSC/club tie in.
And I for one see the “build it and they will come” with the kid kart class and the single engine supply. I think parc ferme for those engines to quit the continual accusations of “X is cheating” would shut the traps of those that yap on that direction.I’m Back:
It is good to see all the comments come forth. That is what free discussion is all about.
Brad, my purpose has always been to promote discussion of problems, new ideas for the SOLE PURPOSE OF MAKING Colorado karting better. Not for personal reasons or aligning with any track or owner.
What has happened inthe past amoung track owners is in the past. The asumptions you are making are from past dealings with George. Maybe those are not true for the future.
I still think a conference call or meeting of the CO track owners is a great idea. Discussing each owners views on the karter is not. You know the touchy feel good meeting not the potential of bashing so everyone can see. Stacy is willing to meet with George why not JB, you and Jim?
If meeting is out George you need to contact a track owner and discuss views personally to get this ball rolling.
Finally, I have been out of touch because we have moved and phone & e-mail are not set up. Sorry I am doing this from the library.
BRAD, your comment about me getting a job is a very low blow. I take offense to that and is not needed on this forum-ANGIE! It just so happens I am starting a new job at AMGEN on Monday! it is bad enough to go 13 mos unemployed to take a dig like that.
IMI is still my home track and will always be. Why, because you guys at IMI have always been helpfull to me and my aligence stays with IMI.
Guys, you have had great comments, ideas, etc. thanks for stepping up.
Rusty, I never incinuated that CO karting has major problems, what it needs is to come together under one body-not a dictatorship, improve club racing numbers , reduce divisions and market the sport.
Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it. That being said let me point out a few things that will perhaps “shine” on a few people.
Successful racing series: F1, Nascar, British Touring Car series to name a few
Unsuccessful racing series: Champ Car, IRL, majority of karting sanctioning bodies
Please note the successful series have a strong figurehead who isn’t afraid of ruffling a few feathers for the betterment of the series (and all the owners have gotten rich because of it)
Common bond of the unsuccessful series: decision by committe (Champ Cars was run this way the first 8 years after the split with the Indy 500) Outright arrogance (Tony George since he holds the crown jewel in Open wheel motorsports) and petty bickering that “my sandbox is better than your sandbox” (all of the above unsuccessful sanctioning bodies)
You want things to improve? Then the obvious answer is a person who has a) direction and vision b) guts to do the right thing in the face of adversity c) an ego that isn’t so big that they can’t move forward when the time is needed to set aside that ego (remove the “E” from ego and guess what, you “GO” forward)
Until this happens things will move forward but slower than most of us want. Track owners will lose money making opportunites, classes will be diluted and I’ll still be racing with a smile on my face because regaurdless, I’m having fun and my class is big because we understand the essence of karting: Have fun, beat each other’s brains out on the track in a sporting and competitive way and if you really do cheat then you’re only cheating yourself.
Just my opinion from a person that is tall, intelligent, charming, sporting, dynamic and most of all… MODEST. 8)
Congratulations, Rich!!! That’s the coolest news I’ve heard in a long time! I bet you did it just to get back at Brad, too.
Mike,
Are you volunteering to be the big Dictator. :idn:
thanks Kurt!
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