- This topic has 74 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 19 years, 4 months ago by
.
- Posts
Well Gee Whiz , I sure hope King George will let us qualify to be a Legitimate Track so we could attend his summit meeting !
Six years we tried to get him to join in our efforts to build Karting in Colorado , and Now He wants a Summit meeting ???
Bless your heart George .
J.B.
Well, what a way for a new karter to start off on the site.
Suffice to say I’ve participated in many competitive regional and national level events and the general bickering is no different anywhere else.
What I’ve seen fail:
Too many classes
Changes to equipment every year (or at all)
No ability to drop an event or two due to things like “day job” priorities, attending weddings, funerals etc.What works:
ability for lots of people to easily participateMy suggestion:
Stop talking about meetings and what track is this or that type.
Propose something and see if people agree, disagree or revise it.Nothing works like a good strawman to start a constructive discussion.
BTW, 6 or 7 people calling the shots is an oligarchy, not a dictatorship.
well some of this sounds familiar to my past racing days in quarter midgets. scheudling for that was a disaster, the only clear thing about it was that there was a distinct level of different competition at the different levels of racing around colorado. (club, regional and national). the big problem was that there were all the exact same classes at each level. and in this particular type of racing (due to the small sizes of the tracks) only 10 could race at a time. basically there were bracket races that went sometimes all the way to Double “O” mains. that means that ten started that main and five transfered all the way up to an A main. in one class. we had a few weekend races in the winter in Columbus, Ohio which started early in the morning on saturday, and would end at 3 in the morning on sunday. now fortunately we dont have that problem with our current class schedule, but that had the same potential to happen at a club or regional level as it had at national races. when really the faster, more expensive classes could have been eliminated completely from the club series to provide a faster schedule as there would only be one or two that would ever show up for the races other than qualifying days to break track records.
Many people reading this are probably wondering what this has to do with the way colorado karting is going. really this is exactly how it is going, but fortunately we can have more people on the track at the same time. the major disaster in quarter midgets was all of the classes… there was light and heavy (or junior and senior in some cases) of every motor classification. i would say there were maybe 15 classes. If classes could have been distributed better through the different competition levels, scheduals could have gone by faster in a weekend and people wouldnt be dreading another race.
obviously, yes we have discussed this many times… but people still keep thinking of new classes and more stuff… im just saying that this could easily happen to karting if we arent careful…
in quarter midgets there were 4 tracks in our region which included one in montana, one in pueblo, one in colorado springs and one in erie. they made a perfect chance to each have their own region of local racers, join a series for regional and provide a little insight of what could happen at a national level.
so basically as the boulder guy… i can say we need to “start a revolution” and get this solved sooner than later 😀
“Just give us time to sell our old stuff and get the new stuff.”
“give racers time to sell old equipment or get new”I don’t know but that to me is the number one problem with our local karting. JB is the only one that is convinced enough that the old stuff has any value to be sold and used again.
Maybe if the shops and tracks would some how strive to keep the new equipment from becoming old in a one to two year time period the old racers wouldn’t leave the sport after their new stuff became old in a couple of years. It just seems to me every time I hear about fixing kart racing the plan always means getting rid of the old stuff and buying new.
The advantage goes to the new racer that doesn’t yet know that all their new equipment will be old and just about useless in a couple of years, and we wonder why the once new karter leaves when it happens.
A long term plan for kart racing should include keeping a plan long enough for the new racer to become and old racer with out having to become a professional resaler of useless equipment.
Most of you seem to enjoy making fun of the almost extinct Briggs racers or even the extinct yamaha kt racers of Colorado. The rules, consisitency and price point that them two power plants had over the last 20 years brought in more karters to kart racing across the country than Rotax, TAG,Honda or Comer will ever think about doing. The reason it worked well was because it was the same crap year after year. I even stopped racing for five years and got back into with my old stuff and won championships from working with my old stuff instead of having to buy all new. I guess my main point is, while your fixing kart racing in Colorado to draw more new people into the sport for 2007. Try to keep things from changing so fast that they have no choice but to become an X karter when the shops and tracks have something new to promote to get more new racers in 2008 after 2007 doesn’t work out quite like you planned.There seems to be a misconception that karting in Colorado is so badly broken that it needs “reform” to straighten it out. I maybe one of the culprets in this misconception.
In many ways, karting here in our state is as strong as it has ever been and compared to many regional series around the country, they should be looking at us with envy.
For example, the regional series in OK-Texas, The Southwest Regional Cup, is drawing numbers far below us. The Great Lakes SKUSA series has yet to come any where near 100 entires, mostly in the 60-70 range. Even the high flying PKC, its last two races are well below our last two races in numbers. 114 vs 97 and 103 vs 89. The Cascade region has yet to break 100 entires and has had to cancel a race due to lack on interest!
Compared to our neighboring states, we’re killing!!!!!!!!!
More to the point, what I’m seeing is a trend that we can correct and get better. Its not that we need to tear what we have down and start over, rather its a matter of tweaking and improving. Over the past 3 years, the attendance of club racing has gone down and the CSC has suffered at bit also. Our old high CSC numbers were in the 140 to 150 range. Now, they are in the 110 to 120 range. Our club series used to be in the 50 to 70 range, now in the 30 to 40 range. Clearly we can and must reverse this trend.
I think we all agree the number one problem is too many races has spread the limited pool of racers too thin. The best first step IMO is to reduce the CSC to 5 races. I strongly advocate no drops for a number of reasons but the main one is so that we don’t get into the situation like this summer the Cascade region got into. One race required travel so a majority of the racers decided to ‘drop” that race. Bottom line it was cancelled. In our case, I’m afraid that the Grand Junction race would fall into that catagory. That would be grossly unfair to the Cooks who have supported karting in every way possible. They deserve a race and a great turnout at one of the best tracks in the country. It is the least we can do for their unwavering support over the years.
The other major problem is too many classes that has taken a race day and stretched it from dawn to dusk. At the same time, we have had to shorten the race lengths way too many times just to get it all in. We’ve cheated our racers out of track time they paid for and were promised. We have got to deliver what we promised. A maximum of 9 classes meets the goal to reduce the total length of the day while giving the racer all the track time he/she/it is looking for and paid for.
All we need to do is, as Mike said, Git-er-done.
Just so I can get a perspective on things…just how long has the CSC been around for? Out of curiosity.
Doug is absolutely correct. Karting in Colorado isn’t broken. It just needs to be tweaked.
The original idea of the CSC was to give karters, that had previously been only running at the track they were committed too as a club series, the chance to run at the other challenging tracks in our state. The hope was that it would also help raise the level of karting. It did.
It was never the intention for it to overwhelm the club racing. I don’t think any of the track owners that sat down at a cafe in Morrison a couple of years ago to get the CSC off the ground would have ever gone along with the concept if they thought for a second it was going to affect their individual club series. We know now it did.Once again the idea of being all things for all people missed the mark.
By running two races at each track and then throwing in a one off event at Steamboat the CSC effectively diluted the club series to the point it has almost died in comparison to five years ago.
Where are new racers supposed to get their track time racing against others so they can improve? It isn’t the CSC. Remember, it was supposed to be raising the bar for the level of competition and you don’t do that by jumping into the CSC pool as a newbie.It is a fact that by trying to be all things for all people we now have too many classes on race day and not enough time in the day for a one day event. It does not make economical sense for track owners to make CSC races 2 dayers. Double the expense with the same amount of income.
It is also a disservice to the racers themselves. Instead of having a day of maximum track time and maximum fun they get minimum track time and a day of sitting around waiting for their few minutes on the track. As was pointed out the length of heats and mains are shortened and even more potential track tame is lost.Some classes need to be club series and not neccessarily CSC classes.
Which ones? That is what needs to decided first.I don’t see the need to overhaul each class and start over with new equipment for some whim class of the week. What we have now is pretty much in tune with what is run across the country.
Something that needs to be corrected in the CSC itself is the clarification of WHO is the CSC? The perception to the karting public is that the CSC is a cohesive group of track owners with a common goal and interest. That isn’t really the case.
To the best of my knowledge there is not one track owner that is a stockholder or even sits on the Board of Directors.
The CSC is a LLC with one principle.
If anything the track owners are an informal advisory group with a lot of stroke due to the fact that they own the tracks that we run on.
Nothing really wrong with that. Politics influence everything in our world.So… fewer races, fewer classes and defined direction.
What are your suggestions?
Rusty
@Jon Romenesko wrote:
Just so I can get a perspective on things…just how long has the CSC been around for? Out of curiosity.
The CSC first ran in 2003.
I think as a newbe to Kart Racing from other forms of racing some of it may be the cost. As I have read in previous I can cost from $100 – $200 to run even a local event, that seem a little high. I have no good answers due to the guy need to make a profit, which I don’t think he’s making much, for running the track. The problem in my mind is the cost of tires at $180 – $220 each race, added that to a $60.00 entry fee and that’s costly. Maybe the F1 rule of 2 to 3 races on a set would help.
I feel I need to chime in here. One common thread to all the posts is the future of Colorado Karting. The only way to do that is to bring new people in the sport. Which everyone agrees.
As a rookie, newbe or what ever you want to call us, I want to give you our perspective. I need to give credit where credit is due.
If it was not for JB and his staff we would not even be in the sport. JB got us into the sport and I can not tell you how much support he has given us. He has tought us everthing we know. And believe me we knew nothing. I did not even know you had to change gears for different tracks. Had no clue what a micron was. I hate to admit that but thats the truth.
Every time I go to Bandi all I see is Donnie, JB running around helping karters with parts, advice, repairs or whatever they need. This is what we need. So to JB, Donnie and the rest of the Bandi staff, I want to thank you for everything you have done for us and we plan on staying in the sport for a long time to come. This year we will race 8 CSC races and 7 club races. I am looking forward to next year. So my last comment is lets get together and work this thing out and build the best karting community in the country.
Zip
(David Zippie’s Dad)
Tag Jr # 32i couldnt agree more than what the last post stated about bandy and jb and his staff at action karting. being seasoned veterans in this sport(over 200 races) we have seen and heard about everything.JB has always been really good to us.His races thogh sometimes a little long always seem to be fun.The track may have some bumps but it is also one of the most technical of the 4 real tracks.Also i cant say enough to show are appreciation to Brad,Bobby,Ron,Doug and the rest of the fine staff at IMI. We have always been made to feel really welcome and very much at home GJMS by Stacy,his wife,Darren,Leroy and the rest of his very capable staff it to has been fun! The Track even though weve only been twice I cant say anything negative about Jim or his staff and even though we had some tire issues and it was alittle long we and several family members from out of state had a very good time. There is one other track and fun didnt equate,but thats another story.If i could offer some advice to new racers it would be stay out of the politics(learned that from mark elliots dad)ask someone when in doubt and do what works for you.Last but not least always try to have fun enjoy your family and your friends. and if you go south always get a reciept!! sincerely JED CLAMPET P.S. If involved in a incedent on track remember you all have the same peddles and there are no excuses in racing.
So I’m reading a few things (the same things I could take off of an R/C combat or pylon site as well). CO karting isn’t broken but needs minor tweaking to keep interest up and grow new participants.
>
Limited number of classes (less than 9, maybe as few as 6 or 7)Short race day (maybe split up into separate days for younger and older groups and do 1/2 day races with rentals for the afternoons)
Keep equipment useful for multiple years.
<Can someone more experienced in karting propose something that meets these general guidelines and see if people will support it. My theory is that a good strawman proposal will go a lot further than just citing issues.
My Input
An organizational meeting, YES! and before the holidays.
Agenda items:
1. One sanctioning body, WKA, TAG USA, IKF, pick one and let’s go with.
2. Like class structures.
3. Cooperative track schedules.
4. One CSC race at each track.
5. More support for the JDD series/program.
6. Solid tech program independent of shop/track owners and CSC leadership.
Not all inclusive, just a start in promoting the sport and making life easier on all concerned. Include me in the planning and organization. I would be happy to help in anyway I can. Good post by Jim (The Track), see Winners everyday!
Respectfully
Eddy Wyatt
91 Rotax/Arrow NewbeeThis can go on for days, weeks, months…..
The CSC needs to have a clear defination and business plan as to who they are, who they represent, what the classes are, and who’s rules are being enforced. Then they need to develop a team of folks who will stand united and can represent the CSC. Until that happens the prisoners will be running the camp.
Angie has done a wonderful job in creating the CSC as we have all known it to be. It has grown to become one of the strongest series in the US as Doug has stated. Things change however. The downside to our changes have been to add way too many classes, too many races making it hard to race every event, and to allow the seat time necessary to increase all of the drivers and tuners skills and abilities.
The CSC needs to continue to grow and allow the Colorado/Utah based regional racers a platform to better hone their skills to head out onto the PRO Tour somewhere, or be able to compete at the National level. This cannot be accomplished with allowing club classes, newbees, or 6-9 year old drivers to race in this series.
I look forward to seeing Jim’s next post as to his classes, schedule and rules. This is where a good run club series will allow for the Jr’s, newbees and recreational karters to go on Saturday and Sunday and run. IMI has always had a great club series and great year-end awards to those who participate in their series. It has allowed many of us the chance to go to the next level which is the Regional level. The CSC level.
It’s pretty basic stuff. I would be more than happy to put up the “neutral ground” for a discussion, however, if it is over attended and not represented by people like Angie, Rusty, Dennis and the Track Owners, it will be worthless. The meeting will also need a moderator to keep it on topic and on schedule. We have the two races left to have some discussion and time to create the guest list. The meeting should be set around 10-21 while this season is still fresh and still in our minds. And over.
Like my buddy Mikey said, Get It Done! BTW, he needs to be on the list too. And he needs to be assigned the “Bouncer” position at the meeting.
Eddy,
Most everything you said makes sense with the exception of the separation of tech from the CSC leadership.
I am very proud to say we have one of the BEST tech programs I have ever been involved with in Colorado and I have been around for a few seasons.
Dennis is knowledgeable, experienced and well respected. He is not affilliated with any track, team or any other entity that might influence his decisions. Dennis has now been recruited by other series to do tech for them because of those qualifications.
Out of all the problems the CSC might have Tech isn’t one of them.Rusty
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.