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Posted : Mon. 08, 28, 2006 4:32pm
Final Totals for Racer Ateendance at our local tracks:
The Track – 43 THE WINNER
CRE – 42
MIM – 31
Rich Vito —Rorax #51
TaG masters & RMax—CRG -KaliRich & To All That Care,
There are NO Winners in the numbers that you’ve reported for the last club race weekend for each of the front range’s three legitimate kart racing facilities. These numbers will not continue to support racing at any on the three tracks and puts the future of the CSC in serious doubt IF all the tracks went to strictly commercial operations. The front range has a population base that is 4 million or more but the sport is so fragmented that it continues to chase away prospective kart racers because of all of the politics and divisions involved.The 2006 season should be over for all of the programs by mid to late October. I will lay down the gaunlet by calling for a centrally located summit meeting, by LATE October, that would include ALL of the states track owners, CSC representatives, the states kart shop owners and a reasonable number of knowledgable representatives for the regions kart racers. CRE Motorsports will be there to work for the good of the sport and the racer.
It is time to put an end to the petty bickering and foolishness in an effort to unite kart racing programs in the state under one banner for the benefit of ALL involved; the track owners, the future of the CSC, the kart shop owners and most of all for the end users…..the kart racers![/b]
To All,
Rich Vito’s numbers for the three front range tracks speaks for itself.
There are NO WINNERS, most of all for the kart racers who are involved in the sport for fun, recreation and the rare few Colorado youngsters that can use the sport as a stepping stone to potential professional aspirations.This is 2006…..I would like to think that the future and potential of the sport in Colorado is MUCH bigger and BRIGHTER and I would like to say this respectfully, than one track owners point of view. That track owner is to be commended for his past efforts to develope kart racing in the Denver metro area over the past 15 years but once again this is 2006 and the landscape has changed significantly and an exciting new day has come that calls for thinking outside of the box and looking to the future.
The challenge has been made and the gaunlet laid down to hold a centrally located meeting by LATE October, that would once again include ALL track owners or at least those that see the need to work for the future of kart racing in Colorado, CSC representatives, the states kart shop owners and a reasonable number of experienced and knowledgable representatives for the regions kart racers. Once again CRE Motorsports will be there to work with others for the good of the sport in Colorado and the racers to establish a Colorado Kart Industry Counsel, to use Mr. Feiburg’s nominclature.
The Greeley Grand Prix Committee has shown that there are those outside of the karting business in metro Denver to help with leadership in terms of locating a time and location for such a meeting. I would ask that someone else would step up that sees the need for this measure to help with the logistics.
Nothing more needs to be said about past experiences….it is 2007 and beyond that we should be concerned with.
You know, Roman and I have been running for 4-1/2 years and it has been the greatest thing for my son that I could have ever dreamed of. He did not have an apptitude for stick and ball sports or otherwise. He was shy and reserved to say the least. Racing has been the portal for him to have his day in the sun and to excell at “something”. We have been exposed to so many people who have had such a positive influence on our lives. We are not some of the statistics who get out after 2 years or whatever. We just like to race. We totally understand the attrition of racers… college, families, etc… This is a natural progression of our sport. This has just been an excellent oppurtunity for our family at this time. Seems like the balance is slightly upset on the incoming racer but not totally lopsided. See a lot of newbies not competing in the Csc, don’t blame them. It can be a burden.
Seems to me the backbone of our racing has such a bright outlook. I look (lurk) some of the forums and see racers across the US who compete on a very limited number of quality racing venues. Look at what we have! Some of the greatest racing circuits anywhere. I don’t want to get into the characteristics of each individual facility but we have a very diversified selection here. I’m just saying, we have some very good things going for the racer in our region. Last year we started to find some success in the State series and chose to let some of the club racers find success at the club level and not practice on all club race days. This year we could not afford to come in and send the club racer back to the woodshed if we wanted to.
It’s too many race days. At the beginning of the year we purchased tires for the season just for the Csc. (it hurt) Ran out already. We feel pretty foolish having raced every race this year and gaining a healthy championship lead in one class, bout 300 some points, brought to 4 points after drops. It cost money to show. If the tracks make their money off concessions, let them do that for all but one race a year and then shut her down and let us roll in and have practice without rental interuption for Friday, Saturday and let us race on Sunday. Entice us to race. Fans or no fans. Narrow down the number of events and bring higher quality to those events. My opinion is less events, more quality in regards to fields etc.. We’ll show up at a club events before the championship dates, others will also. We know the drops can have a negative effect but lets get reasonable. If we have a bad race at the beggining of the year or whatever, I’m going to keep racing on the odds that it can happen to the best of them and try to keep my preperation at the highest levels to minimize the chances of this happening again. Not one club race this year for us.
Narrow it down, do it right, and we’ll be there supporting the clubs events at some level. Being involved in the GGP was an eye opener for me. The tracks who host a race have my complete admiration. It takes more than than Joe racer might realize. I don’t blame them for wanting to generate revenue. Just slim down and make them quality events. We have discussed running a few Csc races next year and saying screw the points lets go around to other races and just have fun with our money. Maybe were not the average racer but we feel pretty average. The Prokart is appealing to us, Cascade Locks was the pinacle for having fun, having a band play and running illuminated valve stems during an event gave me ha__ on! Thanks Jim. What a first race to have family attend!
One thing I’ve observed is, the renters stand at the fence and want to be like Marc, Kyle, Matt, Ben or you fill in the blank. They don’t just rent and run. Do you track owners realise that? I’ve spent time with these people after having fun in your concession machines, explaining the particulars of our sport. Love to do it. Seems like my duty to you for keeping a track open for us. I hope some of them come in to your shops and spend 4-6k + consumables there after, getting into this for their benefit and ours. Point is, if you support the sport in a positive manner it helps the sport, if your out of a job and can’t race, come out and help others vs negative post’s. I don’t post here nearly as much as I used to. It was an obsession to see what everyone else was thinking before, now it’s kinda dead.
My take is, the track owners run the region. The racers could be heard in the right context but we’ve all gone soft. There are those that post the same crap so much I just glide by it too. If there is no balls left in the competitor, take what you get even if it’s not what you wanted. But I have to say, we enjoy racing with the largest fields, seemed like the Csc was the vehicle to do that. We have some new racers this year (yes I watch your “mylaps”) they should be racing. Establish rules and enforce them, I got such a rush out of Brian and Dennis this year even enforcing our tech sign offs. They did not mean much before that did they? You see him walking the pre grid? My undies slid up a few inches how bout yours?
Adress specifics, a few racers discusing things? No just a few whiners. Where is valued input?
Too many races? Yes. Csc, plus a traveling club series where we might run used tires and have fun, We’re in. (you guy’s are making the money off rentals anyway)
Too many tracks? What a problem. Can’t think of too many regions who have too many good tracks to run on.
To many racers quiting after season or two? some of that is inherient give them a place to run on old tires etc…and have fun by there means. It’s a pretty high level state series after all.
Not enough new racers coming in? Give them a place to run on old tires and have fun. Mentor them while not attempting to defend a desirable regional championship.
Racing is too complicated? I say run all of the classes who want to run. (we run 2 classes and haven’t missed a 5 participant 4 stroke race yet! it’s just fun to watch. paint drying has never been so good) I will pack my junk in the dark if everyone gets to run. AND I’ll subsist my complaining if you make the the fairest combining of classes you see fit
Sport is too complicated? Who the hell makes it that way? It’s us! We all want it our way. Set forth what it’s gonna be and the people who want to participate will show.Sorry for the windy post, I love this sport and feel priveledged to have the Brads, Jim’s, J.bs, Cooks, Georges (haven’t raced there, see above) A.J’s, Doug’s, Barry’s, Rusty’s and all the key players who are there year after year. And anyone I’ve missed. It is hard to grow in a sport and see it challenged for growth when it has it’s greatest potential I’ve seen in several years of racing. Hate to see it come down to survival of the fittest. That is not in the best interest of the Tracks or racers. The before mentioned names can make you competitive on a much larger scale (big hitters maybe?) run with their guys and you are good on a very much larger arena, but the health of our competition is the racers we need to be growing. The grass roots racer we were (and most everyone else who reads this a few years ago) what about them?
These are my thoughts (at midnight) but still thoughts. Can it be saved? We could just show up and race but…….
Rick
Dictatorship:
You owners tell us what the classes are and we’ll abide. Just give us time to sell our old stuff and get the new stuff. I know if you do stock 80’s or sealed 80’s they can sell their Comer stuff on EKN or such.
Who CAN say that the stock honda kid cart program wasn’t a success?
TaG Masters and TaG in general continues to be the best fielded class and use it as a template for others.
And get the tracks on board and run em all and (perhaps) one drop max. It (the CSC) is working but can be made better. Limit the amount of races and the club series will flourish.
Owners, set your egos outside the door and go forward. GIT ER DONE, IF you can…
George
I have made many suggestions on this forum over the summer on this forum about this subject. Please tell all of us your idea’s and suggestions for next season. I would also like to see comments from JB, Stacey, Jim and Rusty.
Blink,
I’m glad that you agree there are problems and a need to find solutions. Lets have the discussions face to face, with ALL of the parties involved in an open public meeting and at a neutral site…..with no alcohol involved. We save that for after the program.The purpose of the forum will be to establish a foundation for future co-operation amongst the track owners/promoters, the kart shops, the CSC Rep’s and the kart racers. All of the issues won’t be resolved in one meeting but a steering committee representing the interests of all could be established and areas of concern identified and dealt with one by one. The issues need to be addressed and dealt with by at least January first so that there is a solid foundation for the 07 season.
The Colorado Karter forum is not the place to do business. It is a place to exchange thoughts and ideas that rarily results in any real actions. It is too easy for some to get on line and say anything because it is to easy to hide.
End of October is a month too late. We need to get the decisions done now for next year. People are already making buying decisions for next year and an end of October meeting followed by more meetings means nothing is decided until Chritmas. 4 months too late.
A meeting with all the track owners, all the shop owners and some racer reps will end up a big bitch session at worst and at best, an unweildy group too large to make decisions. Better to have a small group make the decisions now so the whinning and complaining can get done this fall and we can get on with the racing.
@George Durdin wrote:
Posted : Mon. 08, 28, 2006 4:32pm
…….each of the front range’s three legitimate kart racing facilities. These numbers will not continue to support racing at any on the three tracks and puts the future of the CSC in serious doubt IF all the tracks went to strictly commercial operations. [/b]I count 4 legitimate tracks in the front range, While Action Karting does not hold club races, I would bet that J.B. sells more karts, new and used, than just about anyone in the front range. And guess what, he sells them to new racers. The man works his renters better than anyone I know.
I know Geroge you said all kart track owners, but to say there are only three legitimate kart tracks in the front range of Colorado, insults the hard working folks over at Action Karting.
Doug,
This thread is about holding a public meeting of ALL of the principles within a reasonable amount of time to take positive and assertive measures to improve the quality of karting and growth of the sport in 2007 and beyond.Trying to stir the pot is old, unuseful and hopefully politics of the past. I am sure that JB is proud to say that he operates the best and most profitable rental track on the front range.
Lets try to stay positive and move forward with solid reform.
We have a public forum, right here. We already know what the problems and what the solutions are, we’ve discussed it many, many times, right here on this public forum. Still another meeting is just more yada, yada, yada.
Mike said it best, we need to get it done now, give racers time to sell old equipment or get new. There is no need to wait until the end of October. What could we get done then that we can’t get done now, today?
George, I am postive. I’m positve we have 4 legitimate tracks in the front range, not 3 and we need to get it done now, not two or three months from now.
Trying to stir the pot is old, unuseful and hopefully politics of the past. I am sure that JB is proud to say that he operates the best and most profitable rental track on the front range.
Lets try to stay positive and move forward with solid reform.
George,
While not our favorite track from a damaged equipment stand point and sharing pre event practice with rentals. It seemed pretty ligitimate to fairly large groups of racers the last the 8 – 10 times raced there. Not sure if it I was JB an saw a comment like made above or “3 legitimate tracks” if I could see it as positive or not.
I think one common thought is to keep the new racers coming in and supporting future growth of the grassroots racer. Dougs comments (to me anyway) about JB’s rental program and the ability to sell karts seems to be inline with the importance of these new or prospective new racers. We need them and JB keeps getting butts in seats. Right wrong or indifferent. Seems like the task is to get them to compete and spend money around the market and stay around for a while. I may not be reading or understanding a few of your comments the way they were intended but I think if your really concerned with karting in 2007 and beyond you would be willing to put ideas out on this forum. At least see if this can move in a common direction (that may include a Csc event at your facility and more club participation) and get some ideas and concepts out there.
Racers,
The PKC seems to use a forum to discuss the ideas and concepts etc…of all those involved. And I’m not saying jump to PKC as much as they have a formula that seems to work, why can’t we? Just look at the Skusa website regarding the Supernationals. The racers wanted to split Spec Moto into light and heavy, looks like it will happen, I made a comment about the $200 Rv parking charge (not sure how many others complained) now it’s free, they revamped pit space issues and all of these issues are handled in an extremely quick and efficient manner, and so on. If you e-mail them with a question or issue, BANK, there’s a response, maybe not what you wanted to hear but a decision for sure. No pu–yfooting. The business end certainly does not need to be aired on a public forum. But this forum should be a media for communicating for… well…The Colorado Karters. And at one point in time it was used much more for that purpose. It wasn’t allways pretty but constructive in all but a few individuals in my opinion. (did I miss-spell anything?)
My feeling is a lot of the intrested parties are standing there with a handfull of mud, and are going to start tossing in some little jabs till all hell brakes loose “Again”. This won’t move us forward. We need to keep respect for the involved individuals whether we like them personally or not
I would be willing to race a race at everyones track and one or possibly two temps and be happy to do that. Whether or not I like the track owner / promoter whatever. Didn’t have respect for them probably wouldn’t show.
Not into a total dictatorship but someone or group could step up and grab this thing by the horns, keep the racers we have and try to grow more. Seems like there are wounds that could heal but are we really ready to get into a room and start hammering things out?
Angie, don’t missinterpret my comments as being directed toward you. You are one person (who has family racing) and does more in our region to keep some sense of sanity than anyone. There just needs some continuity and direction from the racing community at this point. You’ve done an awesome job!
Again, my thoughts.
Rick
Good luck to my GP Team in Rock Island!!! Rock on Brothers!!!
And good luck to Alan Rudolph and Marc Elliott in The Rbi finale!I have to agree with you both Doug and Rick, the dialog has been started long before this post on this forum and we don?t need to wait for two months to start the discussion. If George has any positive input he should just jump in and start letting everyone know what he is thinking. I also think that the 3 legitimate track comment was a dig at JB so if you want peace with everyone George you are the one who should stop starting new conflicts. You started the conversation after Rich’s Seinfeld post now just tell us what your idea?s are so we can get started.
@Mike Jansen wrote:
Dictatorship:
I have long said, karting needs a benvolent dictatorship.
My suggestion for Colorado. A group of 6 or 7, track owners and a couple of other long term karters/shops get together and make it happen.
Classes should be broken into club level, regional level and national level based on participation.
Club level More open rule structure, more classes. Not all tracks will run the same classes as they will run those classes that are strongest in their area. For example, this year some classes in the CSC did very well at certain tracks, very limited or not at all at other tracks. While these classes maybe great classes and offer great racing, they ARE NOT regional classes and should not be in the CSC. Each track owner should be free to decide which classes he/she/it wants to run based on their customer base. Tech would be limited to non-exsistant.
Regional classes, ie, the CSC. More limited than club level racing. There should be at most, 9 classes. Races should be longer, 25 lap mains and 15 lap pre-mains. Lets find out who can drive. The rule structure should more closely follow national level rules and give a place for both the national level racer looking for more racing and the stronger club level racer looking for better competition. The regional races should be very limited in number so as not to over power club level racing as we have found in recent years. No more than one race per month or less would be better and no drops. You want to win this championship, you better show up AT EVERY RACE and bring your A game. Tech should be strong but no nit picky.
People keep brining up the PKC. Lets look at why its strong and would it work here. Based on its class structure, it won’t work here. We flat don’t have enough senior only drivers to make a go of it. We couldn’t do it before (SKUSA was here before, Rusty started it, Grady finished it), why would it work now?
But one thing it is doing very right is limiting it’s structure to a resonable number of classes and giving its racers plenty of racing. What I’m suggesting falls right in line with the PKC, limited number of classes, more racing.
Rick, Doug & Blink,
The thread was about the diminishing number of club racers at the front ranges three tracks that host club racing. As you mentioned Doug, Action Karting no longer hosts club racing which was or has been a pretty intelligent move by JB.It is pointless and counter productive to attempt to stir up anger in an effort to divert a positive discussion, that is generally where topics on this forum go when certain folks want to control the thought s and directions of others on this forum. No insult was meant in regards to JB and Action Karting.
Once again this forum is a place to kick around ideas but not a place to conduct busuiness. If you are serious about making reforms in Colorado karting then help establish a meeting for all and then particpating in the process. Otherwise it is just more of the same old same old……
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