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I’m taking Jim Keesling’s sign-off request from Sunday seriously. Most of the suggestions are great, especially Doug’s, so I will build on those in a (hopefully) logical order.
Sanctioning: I’m neutral on this; if the new SKUSA give us bang for the buck let’s try it. If we stay on our own, we should be a higher-level, regional series, not sucking the club series dry.
Events: I’d vote for 6 events, one per track and Greeley. If things won’t work with CRE (and/or the track doesn’t get lengthened), include MMP. Maybe include them anyway. Keep the western Stars and Summer Shootout dates clear.
Class Structure: We need to reduce the number of races, not necessarily classes. Doug’s structure does that. We ran 12 races by my count last Sunday, and Doug’s structure would reduce that to 9. In that spirit, here’s some additional thoughts:
– Group 1: Kid Karts (Honda? Seems to be going over well)
– Group 2: Jr. 1 (engine TBD, but something that runs ~1:10 at IMI/GJ, doesn’t vary in power between engines, and lasts all season)
– Group 3: MiniMax. Would like to see TaG Cadet (per TaG USA) here also, should be just a touch slower. Separate class, same group. By the way, I’d go for a Club MiniMax chapter.
– Group 4: TaG Jr.
– Group 5: TaG Sr.
– Group 6: TaG Masters/Heavy
– Group 7: 80 Junior and 80 Novice. No real reason to delete 80 Novice, I really don’t see the disparity on the track between these 2 classes. Long term (maybe next year, definitely in 2008), we should lead the country (again) and change out the high-strung 80 Juniors (engines, not kids) for restricted 125 Spec engines, just use a 28mm carb.
– Group 8: Spec 125 Sr. and Spec 125 Masters/Heavy
– Group 9: Pro 125 and 125 Masters/Heavy
That makes 13 classes, but 9 races. To avoid speed disparities, each driver must have put in an official lap within some % (probably 3-5 seconds) of the polesitter to run in the final. Too slow, you’re out. Also, some groups could run together in practice only (at least groups 2/3, 5/6, and 8/9). So 6 practices (1.5 hours), 9 qualifiers (2 hours), 9 heats (2 hours), and 9 mains (3.5) hours. Start at 8, done by 6 (plus podiums) – sound reasonable?Driver Qualifications: New drivers should have done at least 3 club races before entering CSC (in other words, I wouldn’t qualify yet) and have the club race director’s approval to move to CSC. Pro 125, at least, should require a season in another class or club racing. Tracks should should require an intro-to-racing class before a new driver even enters a club race – another income opportunity for them, as well as coaches like AJ and Greg.
Club Racing: This is where the real work needs to be done. In general, club races should be the place to develop basic skills, race with less expense, and allow more varied (i.e., older) hardware to run. It’s pretty much this way already. Possible improvements:
– Rental classes (Jr/Sr). Seems obvious to me, a nice chance to make $, but I don’t think anyone’s doing it.
– Non-points classes. If someone wants to run their KT, let ’em. Limit the # of races they can run, don’t award a trophy, and make sure the kart is safe, but it’d be a good “try before you buy” method.
– Have a “Club Cup” inter-club event at the end of the year, for any club racer that’s done >5 events, say. Under the lights at The Track? A special event at Bandi? There’s a marketing opportunity here, and it would be more incentive for club racers
– If a class builds at the club level (like F200, or Rotax DD2, or wild rotary engines), they should go up for consideration in CSC. With specific limits (like a potential pool of 20 karts) stated up front. Like SCCA.
– And keep up the Rotax Max thing as a subset of the club races (no matter what I personally think about those engines, it’s a well-run series)General: We really need a coordinated marketing plan, with a goal of growing club racing by 3-4 times (there is an upper limit to how much we can handle with 5 tracks; it’d be nice to get there). Let’s at least do the basics right: websites that are up to date, “starting karting” webpages and handouts, published service prices from the shops and teams, booths at target events….we know the drill, but are only doing about 10% (by the way, the coolest thing I’ve seen this month is a picture of Mr. Keesling with kart on top of a Shell gas pump. Okay, 2nd coolest, after the free Denver GP tickets).
Keep in mind that nothing gets settled in this forum. It’s a great place for discussion, but once a rough concensus starts to form, it’s up to the current leaders, and those who step up to help, to fill in the details, sell it, enforce it, and make it real.
Here is the file with drops. Use the tabs at the bottom to go to different classes……
http://www.thecoloradokarter.com/2006pointswithdrops.htm
Thanks. Angie
Kurt, I like your idea of the restricted 125 shifter class, great idea! I was going to suggest a stock 80 class. What are your thoughts on that vs. the restricted 125? (though the engine commonality kind of answers my question already as a cheaper step from jr. to sr. racing.)
Great suggestions for growing the club events (this is where my heart and wallet will be next year
Kirk
Kurt: well thought out post and pardon me but what is MMP track??? I like restricted 125 instead of 80’s. It’s another engine they can use while they move up in class and get a carb instead of a new engine.
Brad, Doug, What are your thoughts on that.
Finally, practice mornings of race day, why can’t we combine similar classes at the longer tracks (not Bandimere due to length)
MMP = Miller Motorsports Part. Slc Utah Awesome venue!
On the drop math you can spin it anyway you want it. I will use our situation for example.
We are currently 3rd in the points with 2 drops. We missed one race as we were out of town. If there was only one drop we would be in second place. Now the interesting part, lets say we did race Greely and assume we got at least 5th place (big assumption) but we have been finishing 3rd, (AND THERE WERE NO DROPS THIS YEAR) we would be 1st in the points.
So what I am saying there is hundreds of scenarios based on everyones situation. I still think the talent rises to the top no matter what.
But I will say one thing (at least in our division (Tag Jr.) no one is wrapping this up until the last race of the year. In fact the argument of missing the last race because it means nothing argument goes out the window. The math is simple here. In the top 6 in our dividion, you miss another race your finished for the championship.
Your division could be different, but there is no concrete statements that you can make as far as who gets hurt or not.
I just go back to my original comment, with no drops and you have to miss a race for whatever reason, you are done.
David Zippie
We are on the 3rd year with Mark’s 80s. We ran it in novice then had it updated to 80 jr specs. Seems fairly efficient. Just an argument for the other side. We need to find a way to run the 80 novice and jr classes together. There were 5 in one class and 6 in the other Sunday, and they were run separately. I would suggest 2 separate starts, if the kids can run a kart faster than most drive on the streets, they should be able to wait there turn to start. With the soft tires and the light weight of the novice class, they run the same or faster laps as the jr class. They probably would never catch each other if spaced 30 seconds apart. This would have saved about 1 hour Saturday. The same could be said with the Pro 125 class.
Jumping a 12 year old to a 125 seems a little scary to me, even with a 28mm carb. If the CSC decides to drop the class due to lack of participation, I would fully understand. Just do it early enough (November), so we could sell and get geared up for the next season.
Bill
Well we have plenty of suggestions, ideas, thoughts and so on.
But do we have the CSC, Track Owners, Club series listening and taking all of this down to discuss????? i doubt it.
Organization Organization Organization body for 2007 should be doing this. If this doesn’t happen we are all just blowing in the wind and full of hot air. If you do not include track owners, racer reps, shop owners reps, CSC you have lost.
What I speak to is not just CSC but all of CO Kart Racing. Somebody has to be accountable just not responsible for it.
I vote for you Rich! :rock
@fastg wrote:
Ok, Iv’e been scratching my head over this and still don’t see what the big deal is. The fast guys are still going to show it in there point standings in the long run. It seems to me, the better drivers are going to consistantly post higer scores – if EVERYONE drops there 2 lowest scoring races (including DNR’s), it’s still a level playing field right? The guys who turn out for every race (and they should be commended for that) are still going to be posting scores reflective of there level of driving.
Seems the dops free up the schedual for the karter – that’s all I see
ok, get out the flame throwers
P.S. Just checked out the results after drops – I’m not seeing how the new math changes anything… Yes, if your gonna run a 9 race series – be commited to run the nine races – but it’s nice to have some flexibility for other things – this isn’t Indy here…Just a comment from me personally. In the PRO ICC class, Mark has to throw away 385 points and Matt 366 points to Kyle’s 315 points.
Guess who now get’s the CSC ICC PRO 2006 Championship? BTW, this equates to about $112.00 per drop point for us running in this class per year. So it kind of is Indy for us personally.You are right, the cream does rise to the top and Kyle is the guy to beat. He is a great competitor and friend, but he finished crappy in two events and will be rewarded for it due to drops. It would be easier to swallow if he had a wedding or graduation or funeral to blame it on, but not a flat tire for God’s sake!
So there it is from just one of 15 classes. Anyone else have any typical drop stories in their classes like ours?hi Curt,
Wow! $112 per drop point – that amounts to $40,992.00 in your case for 2 drops, or $20,496.00 per race – don’t know if I have that in my whole race program 😯 What is your beer budget? I know I’m one of the new, slow, fat guys – and I’m just learning this whole regional series thing, but where does that figure come from?
All kidding aside, I see both positives and negitives regarding drops, and in my opinion, they equal each other out. That being said, I still belive if drops are allowed, we still stand on equal ground and the better driving abilitys will be rewarded in the long run. Taking away drops, to me, only places limits on the karters, familys, etc.
Have a good one,
Gary
P.S. Don’t get me wrong, I’d run – drops, or no drops… just throwing it out there…
It’s $112.00 per drop piont per my post, not point. To campaign an ICC PRO up front for a 9 race series it will cost you at least 30K if you start with nothing. We purchased two TM’s, a chassis and all the bells and whistles to make a run for the championship. Next year will be much cheaper seeing as we already have motors and something to hang them on.
The point I am trying to make is drops suck. Drops were originally designed for a 10-12 race club series, not a regional or national series, or any other form of motorsports. The CSC already deleted Mothers and Fathers day, Easter, and booked events around Stars West races. If you are serious about racing at the CSC level you should plan your calendar around it, not through it.
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