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I shure hope someone figures out what to do about this. It’s pretty sad to think we can promote an extinct motor as the new class of karting.
Just a few months ago when I was trying once again, to decide what my fewture in karting was I was mislead again with ” Ya Honda will supply us with as many of these kits as we need for as long as we need them.”
The end of production in 2008 for even the new ones is not a good way to get many people started in investing towards the fewture of racing any thing, unless you only want the racer to stay with it for a year or two.
Good Luck.Freeze,
one word answer, TAG. You would love it ! :cheers:Honda has said that they will continue to build 2001 and up motor packages and parts for the next several years however sounds like the 99 stuff is history… Doug where are you? we need your input 😆 😆 We have several guys wanting to go stock moto and actually have 4 sold so some kind of resolution soon would sure help all….
I’m trying to do something completely uncharacteristic for me. I’m trying to get more information before I say something stupid!
I can comment of a couple of points. Outside of PKC, no one is allowing 2001 stuff. One problem with them, they allow the use of 2001 ignitions and stators. The two years do not interchange and there is a slight advantage to the 2001 ignition. This also takes away a powerful tech tool, grid swaps of ignitions. We all know what happens when the ignitions get opened up. Been there before and don’t need to go back.
What I’m trying to find out is if we allow the 2001 cylinder and head but not the ignition, how comparable are the two packages? I had a talk with Dave Larson, head of Tag USA, yesterday on this subject. The rules we adopted last year came from them. He is thinking along the same lines but needs more information before giving the thumbs up.
The no more 2 cycles only from Honda only concerns new products. Honda still has one of the best part supply chains in the world. You can go buy parts from them for engines that have been out of production for 20 years or more. The big question is, Is Honda going to make 1999 cylinders? If we allow 2001, are we just using up stock or are they going to make them? Long term, should we be thinking of using one of their 4 cycle products and forget 2 cycles all togther?
Actually, the DD2 is looking better every day. Stable rules package, goes like stink, comes with a warranty, electric starter, no chain. What’s not to like? I’m giving serious thought to bringing one in.
Hi,
I’m in Iowa on my way to the Rotax Grand Nationals, watching the tornado warnings on TV while I write this. 😯
I saw the DD2s run in Willow Springs and they looked pretty interesting. I’ll take another good look at them in Elkhart Lake and try to talk to a few of the DD2 guys.
If DD2s were included in the CSC, what class would they race with? Are they about the same performance as spec shifter?
What does a DD2 weigh without driver?
Charles
Charles – Doug answered this question before, my filtered summary is that while the lap times may be close to Stock Moto, they’d be faster in different places so aren’t quite compatible (i.e., they’d need their own race in the CSC).
Doug – Don’t get me wrong, I like the concept too, but there are a few minor problems: they’re pretty expensive, the chassis can’t be used with any other engine, and they haven’t been around long enough to pick up used ones at a reasonable price (except for maybe some RM1’s).
My conclusion: An excellent class for Jim, Stacey, and others to run at the club level next year. Unless we have 15-20 already sold and waiting for a place to play.
Can’t wait to see the Shockwave DD2.
Back to the main subject. Who’s talking to Honda about parts supply for the next 5 years?
We have talked to both Hi-Tech and Swede Tech and also Darcy Decoste. DDR said they had been in direct contact with Honda and that the 99 cylinders are history. They suggest (honda) that we look at the 2001 up motors for future use. Looks like it wil be our only option in the future…. Doug how much of a difference in performance between the 99 and the 2001-2002? Maybe we could get Dennis on here to help us out, he is the tech director and really knows the difference in these motors…
I had a conversation today that also has a direct link with Honda. In fact, the 1999 are not history. We must remember that DDR has a reason to see the 1999 go away, he doesn’t use them and doesn’t want them. He is and has been the main proponet for the 2001 all along and it’s a big part of his business.
Honda made a batch of cylinders in August. There was a problem with them. The bottom of the cylinders were not correct. My friend related to me a fax that they (Honda USA) received this morning. Honda is pushing the supplier to move up the October delivery date for 150 cylinders.
On the dyno, there is a hp advantage of the 2001 over the 1999. Particularly if the 2001 ignition is included. Its not so much more hp as it is different hp(different power curve).
My concern is a short sited push to change for short term sales when a change is not really needed for long term stability This is all to common throughout karting’s history. We should move slowly.
@Doug Welch wrote:
We should move slowly.
Amen to that. A knee jerk reaction to the problem only makes a bigger problem.
I agree that CSC should move slowly on the decision. However, 150 cylinders in october (hopefully) won’t supply the world of karting, or MX. The ’99 only rule is the majority now
Doug, has your insider told you how many ’99 cylinders Honda expects to supply, and by when? If they only supply 150, it will only be a small band-aid. This should be considered in the rules making process.
Thanks,
BRI agree with Mike, a knee jerk reaction is not what we are looking for but we really need to do something and a 150 cylinders is not going to make a dent in the demand nationwide plus if the rumor is true that it is going to be next to impossible to get 99 parts from here on out we should look at all options.
Stacey
I agree, we do need to look at options and keep them open. I have wondered that if we go the 2001 route, how quickly do we get right back into the same situation? There is a limited supply of them. Will they have the exact same problem?
Long term, should we be thinking outside the box a bit more?
Pardon my ignorance on manufacturing but wouldn’t it be best to contact a HONDA representative, explain the situation to them and give them rough numbers nationwide and perhaps they could then make a decision to continue manufacturing 99 cylinders to meet demand? Or am I just being naive in this whole scenario?
Or an outside company coming in to manufacture an OEM replacement?
@Doug Welch wrote:
how quickly do we get right back into the same situation? Will they have the exact same problem?
This the EXACT reason why people went to stock honda class. Let me refresh memories: Stock class with equal engines in powerband, torque and HP. An engine that they could use for several years without it becoming a boat anchor after a season or two.
I think we need to get not only OUR region involved in this but perhaps other sanctioning bodies with the same challenge. There have to be some players who have clout or connections to steer the nationwide karting powers to be to reiterate this to HONDA or a suitable OEM cylinder company. Or again am I just being Naive? Surely Honda only has a problem when they aren’t making $$$ or it’s illegal. They have the casting and milling machines to make a boatload of cash in the parts division!
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