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Hi all,
I’ve watched a few karting events in the past with the idea of eventually getting into it myself…it looks like it’s time 8)A little about me: I’m 6′, 215 lbs, 35 yrs. old and have some motocross experience, and am fairly mechanically inclined. I rented a rotax TaG (I later found out it had the Jr. engine configuration) the other day and had a blast.
I immediately ruled out ICC due to the costs involved. TaG and stock moto seem to be the logical classes for me. Really the only thing that bothers me about TaG is all the various sanctioning bodies and the various rules. I don’t want to invest in a kart/motor setup only to have to make a significant changes to it in order to race. What are the rules that most Colorado tracks run for TaG? From what I’ve read the ROK TT engine sounds ideal…but it doesn’t seem that the rules for this motor will stay in place.
My understanding is the TaG classes have large fields on race day…what about stock moto? How popular is it in Colorado?
I appreciate any thoughts on which class would be better for me, and why.
Thanks!
SteveMost people will recommend to every new karter to start in a tag kart. However people who do have motocross experience normally do fine in a shifter. I still would push you towards a tag though. The fields are larger and they will teach you to be a smoother driver. If what you want to do is shift gears, then just go shifter so you don’t have to worry about losing investment on a tag kart you don’t want.
For tag engines in my experience the reliability goes like this:
1. Rotax
2. Leopard
3. Rok or PRDAll the series here run the same tag rules, unless you run in a rotax specific series. In tag masters the Rotax has pretty much been the fastest motor for the past couple of years, and they got a little faster now that the new cylinders and coils are out. The leopard and Rok are also competitive.
if you get a used kart get one that is supported by one of the local shops, and same goes for motor packages. Also make a point to go to Barry, Jim, Brad, Aj or GJMS if your out there, and come see us at Shockwave to talk one on one with somebody. We would be happy to spend some time with you talking about the different motors and letting you see them all hands on. It does help to go to all the shops to find the one you like and trust, as well as get multiple opinions.
If you go shifter go stock moto.
Check out our website for more information, and remember you can never ask too many questions!
http://www.shockwavekarting.comI think choosing between tag masters and stock moto heavy is a good idea. There are only a few stock moto heavy karts around right now, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few more in the next year or two. The tag master fields are pretty healthy at the club level and maybe a little thinner at the regionals.
Where are you located? What did you think of the tag kart? I jumped right into shifter and I’m doing ok after 2 years, but I suspect my driving could have benefited from doing a year or more in tag. I have seen motocross guys pick it all up pretty quickly.
Like Greg said, local support is one of the keys to your success and you’re bound to find a fit with one of the local shops/teams.
Come on and join the fun. You’ll have a blast. Don’t be afraid to ask for more help.
Thanks for the info guys…
I live in GJ, and I’m literally 10 minutes from GJMS. I hope to check out some of the front range shops soon, but for now GJMS is it.
The TaG I rode was a lot of fun…I was told it was a “jr” configuration and that the “sr” karts would be a little quicker. What kind of difference is there between the jr. and sr. TaGs, mechanically and performance wise?
If the Tag I rode was representative of most TaGs…I dunno. If the classes were large with good racing, I would enjoy it. If not, I think I might be happier with something faster. If the Sr. TaGs are a good bit faster than the one I rode I think I’d be content with the performance for awhile.
The electric start on the TaG is a plus…I’m sure I’ll spend alot of time at the track without anyone to push start me.
The stock moto is still enticing. My understanding is the upfront cost tends to be more than a TaG, but after the initial purchase the maintenace costs tend to be similar. True?
I’m waiting for the next race so I can talk with the racers in the pits, and see what kind of turn out they get for the various classes. I suspect that experience will be the determining factor for me more than anything.
Now here is a loaded question…how much can I realistically get into either Tag/Stock Moto for, considering a well maintained used chassis/engine?
Thanks again,
SteveThe difference between the Rotax Jr and Sr is that the Senior engine has a power valve, and the Junior does not. The published horsepower for a Sr engine is 28.5hp vs. 20.4hp for the Jr (although we’ve seen slightly higher numbers for both on the dyno). For comparison, a stock moto puts out about 35-38hp and is typically 1-1.5 seconds a lap faster than a Rotax. It’s hard to directly compare the lap times of Rotax Sr and Rotax Jr karts… lap times are usually about the same, but the Juniors run at a lighter weight so it’s not a fair comparison.
I’ve met very few new racers that are discontent with the performance level of a Tag kart as long as they have someone to race against.
Another thing to consider is that driving a shifter is very demanding physically. As a motocross guy you’ll probably be fine, but shifters are definitely brutal on your body. Tags are much gentler which is part of the reason the Tag Masters class is so popular.
As for costs… Rotax parts are the most expensive, but also last longer than any other engine package. It requires very little maintenance. The stock Honda parts are super cheap and the engine is fairly reliable, but you’ll definitely do top end rebuilds more often than you will on a Rotax. Probably pretty similar over the long run. Leopard/Rox/etc parts are moderately expensive but in our experience require the most maintenance… so probably the most expensive in the long run.
You can find a good solid used Tag in the $3500 range. Used stock Hondas are kinda hard to come by, but tend to go for $5000-6000 when they do pop up.
The folks over at GJMS are great people.
Thanks for the info guys…I’m going to try and get to the club races at GJMS this weekend.
At this point I’m leaning towards getting a TaG. I think I may have a line on a chassis, now I’m thinking about motor packages…the PRD fireball looks good. Obviously the price is a big plus, but how does reliabilty/performance compare to Rotax/leopard, etc.?
Thanks!
Steve,
The Club race scheduled for this weekend at GJMS has been rescheduled for August 26th. We moved it to this weekend to so everyone could get ready for the CSC event however several Club members had conflicts and we had to move it back to the 26th.
I can’t speak for the durability of the Rotax engines, but twice now, our Karting Coach team has run a single, race spec Leopard for the entire duration of the 24 hours at the Track.
Earlier this season, Mike had a problem with his engine on Saturday during a makeup race (we made a mistake with the rebuild), so we put my un-rebuilt Leopard from the previous year’s 24 hour race on his kart for Sunday. He was able to run in 2nd place for about half of the main event with a pretty well worn engine. We couldn’t get it to turn RPMs beyond 15k but it still had a surprising amount of power.
Mark
THIS IS GREAT INFO I’M PRETTY MUCH IN THE SAME SHOES LOOKING TO START WITH LOTS OF MOTORCROSS EXP! IS THE LEPOARD SR THE SAME WITH A VALVE OR IS IT JUST A PIPE SWAP? IVE GO A LINE ON A KART BUT HE HAS BOTH PIPE BUT SAYS THAT IT IS RUNNING AS A JR, AND ALL I NEED TO DO IS SWITCH THE PIPE! I KNOW THE ROTAX HAS THE VALVE.
TIMMY
Tim and Steve
For what it’s worth. I tuned/maintained both Rotax and Leopard. Given a choice, I would buy a new Rotax. I still have a Rotax I bought new in 2006. Raced it every season since, finished 2nd in points in the Rotax Sr class in 06, won the RMAX Masters Championship in 07 at CRE, ran the IMI/TTAC club series last year, sat out 4 races and still managed to finish 4th in points. The Rotax is very durable and competes against any of the engines on the market today, including the new Rok TT.
In 3 years, I’ve put 3 top-ends in it and 1 bottom. Additionally, I’m still running the original rod and crank and it is stronger now that when I first purchased it in 06. If you guys buy a Rotax, I would recommend having it serviced by Doug at Shockwave.
Just my opinion
Good luck guys and have fun
EddyTHANKS EDDY,
I PLAN ON GETTIN A ROTAX EVENTUALLY BUT DOLLARS DO SPEAK!!! I’M AT LEAST ABLE TUNE AND REBUILD MY OWN ENGINES AND CARBS, SO SO LUCKILY I JUST HAVE TO PURCHASE PARTS! BUT IM STILL UNSURE IF THE IS AN ACTUAL ENGINGE DIFFERENCE OR IF IT IS JUST THE PIPE ON THE LEAPORD? ALSO THREE DIDGIT #’S OKAY HAVENT REALLY SEEN ANYONE RUNNING THEM? ALSO HOW DO I GO ABOUT GETTING A NUMBER?TIMMY
Timmy,
The diff. between SR & JR is only the header,and as an former Moto X racer I run my 3 digit Moto #@Timmy Koger wrote:
THANKS EDDY,
I PLAN ON GETTIN A ROTAX EVENTUALLY BUT DOLLARS DO SPEAK!!! I’M AT LEAST ABLE TUNE AND REBUILD MY OWN ENGINES AND CARBS, SO SO LUCKILY I JUST HAVE TO PURCHASE PARTS!The Rotax is a sealed package. In order to remain RMAX series legal it must remain sealed. To keep it legal an authorized dealer must do the rebuild work and reseal the engine. Of course you can always break the seal and do your rebuild work yourself. But if you do that you will not be RMAX legal and it will hurt the resale value of the engine. Unless, of course you have an authorized dealer do a rebuild, seal, and update your passport before you sell the engine.
Ohh, and could you please find your Caps Lock button and push it for us. All caps is a bit distracting when you’re trying to read.
I’ll always put in a vote for the Rotax, especially for someone looking to save some $$. I have 47 hours on the bottom end of mine, and it hasn’t lost any significant speed since day 1. Did a top end about 15 hours ago, but other than 3 clutches and regular maintenance items, I haven’t touched it. Don’t listen to anyone who trys to tell you that it’s uncompetitive at X track, once you figure out the gearing (critical to keep it in the right power band) and carb tuning (not as tough as some make it out to be), it will be right with all of the other TaG packages. You also have to have a little more finesse on the loud pedal than the other engines, but that just comes with seat time. Great engine! :dance:
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