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Dear Doug,
You are way out there on this issue! There is no excuse for mixing children in a slower class with adults in a faster class. J-1 and J-2 should be combined and the faster adults should be split out. While I agree with you on the issue of passing, I will argue for the safety of our children when mixed with faster more agressive adults. I would never have thought that the concern for our childrens safety would evolve into a argument over the internet, this is a ( NO BRAINER ). You and I argued over spliting the tag class, and as you wittnesed for yourself, the vote was overwhelming in favor of the split. I will remind you again about RULE number 1, THIS IS A DRIVERS SERIES, you must listen to the drivers or you will run them off and there will be no sereis.
As for the comments on how long the race took, because of the issues that should have been blown off, return to RULE number 1.
J.B, we had a great time ( rough track and all ) thank you for working your ass off blowing the track dry so we could get some practice in on Saterday. Even though we diden’t get home until 1:30 am, we had great time.
Greg and Doug
Neither of you has intreperted what I said correctly. So I try to write it so that hopefully you understand. If the driver had done the same thing to an adult, he should have gotten a rolled black flag. The track response to that action was correct. The ages of the drivers has nothing to do with it. A faster kart punted a lapper out of the way, period. That action deserves a rolled black flag, period. Is it your contention that it is ok to punt lappers out of your way? If it is, I strongly suggest you find another series to run. Lapped traffic is a part of racing and it is the overtaking drivers responsibility to pass safely.
I do not have any thing to do with which classes run together. Every aspect of the operation of the race is entirely up to the track owner. If you don’t what kids running with adults, talk to the track owner, not me! I have made no comments in any of these posts regarding the suitability of putting kids out with adults. Please take the time to read what I have said carefully and do not use you bias to interpreate what I have said. I have always typed exactly what I want to say. But let me put in bullets so there is not misunderstanding.
1. Punting lappers is wrong in every instance and deserves a black flag. The ages and class of the drivers is irrealivent. You don’t punt lappers!
2.. I have nothing to do with the actual operation of the race and all concerns to the operation, tech and safety of the track should be directed to the track owner who is in complete control of all aspects of race operation.
3. I have never said anything in person or in my posts about which classes can or should run together and I have never stated anything publicly about running junior 2 with 4 cycle senior.
[/b]@Greg Johnson wrote:
Modified class that you axed!
I didn’t axe your class, a class where only one ot two shows up is not a class. There were four people involved in making those decisions and I was one of the four. It was a unaniumous decision amougst 4 of us to create a single adult 4 cycle class for there were barely enough drivers for one class, let alone two.
Any class that does not meet the mininum number of drivers will be eliminated. We are not going to have classes just to hand out trophies. Right now, the S2 class is on the choping block. It had zero entries at Bandimere. If we don’t get some at the next event, its gone.
If you guys are trying to save time at the track, just look at the times for similar classes. You have 2 opportunities to race seperate classes at the same time. The first being 125 Novice (8 entries) and 125 Fat boys (10 entries). They run damn near the same times and neither of the fields are too big. The next is to run Junior 1 and Junior 2 together. Again, the fields aren’t very big and they run close to the same lap times. Somebody is going to have back markers, but it really makes no sense to put different types of classes together and different age groups together.
Doug. There were eight Lim. Mod Animals that showed at Band. That is more than enough for its own class.There are a couple more I know of that didnt show.Track owners eliminated the Seinor 4 cycle Lim. Mod class based on LAST year,and before this season began. This is a new year and this new engine package/class is growing strong. I think the track owners need to re-think this and bring back the class it blindly voided. I think to entry fee from 8-10 Lim. Mod Animals can cover the HUGE cost of trophies for it own class!
@Dennis Garwood wrote:
The first being 125 Novice (8 entries) and 125 Fat boys (10 entries). The next is to run Junior 1 and Junior 2 together. Again, the fields aren’t very big and they run close to the same lap times. Somebody is going to have back markers, but it really makes no sense to put different types of classes together and different age groups together.
Novice 125 and senior/heavy 125 did run together. In terms of lap times, the junior 2 kids were closer to 4 cycle senior than junior 1 (Which I find odd but I have the final laps times in front of me!) Junior 1 had 16 racers and a lap time spread (fast to slow) of 9 seconds per lap. We should add the junior 2 to them? There were only 4 junior 2 racers. We can not put them out by themselves, it adds too much time to an already cramped schedule. Who do we put them with? Where would you put them? If the 4 cycle senior drivers can practice on the track with juniors and not hit them, why can’t they race with them?
By the way, the shifter classes were short changed in the finals. All our races were shortened to 15 laps. The 4 cycle senior class got more laps than anyone. The day is already too long when you have to cut laps from some of your largest classes! We should have cut the laps from the smaller claases so that the bulk of the racers got what they paid for.
The two largest classes are the Pro 125 and the Junior 1, both with 16 entries.
In the finals We had a total of:
46 shifters
41 Tag
42 4 cycle junior and clutch, of which 30 were in junior 1 and kid karts.How about 4 cycle mods. man up and get a fast kart !! 😀
Problems solved.
Doug Welch,
If you would read slower, you would see in my post that I agreed with you on the issue of passing. Where in my post could you interpert that I agree with punting anyone off the track? My concern is with the junior classes and the safety of those kids, As you put it, ( IMHO ) I think anyone who deliberatly punts a kart off the track should be DQ,ed PERIOD!!!
As for your involvment on class structure and race operations, you are right on track, YOU DONT HAVE A SAY IN THE MATTER!!! so why do you make it sound like you are running the show on every issue on this web site? Just take a second and read what you write.
And finally, dont think that you need to rephrase or reword anything for me to understand, I retired at the age of 37 and I am far from a simple minded idot.
One suggestion would be to run the Jr 2’s and the 60 shifters together. Their times were similar and a rolling start for the 60’s would speed things up, and save the ankels of the poor dad’s out there push starting half the pack.
We ran that way most of the time and things worked out fine. The two groups would need to be seperated by 50 yards with the shifters in front.good god, lighten up people, its not that big of a deal
do more of this :cheers:
and less of this :bs:Sorry Mr Elliot, The safty of the Jr. racers is not B.S. and now is a better time to discuss it rather than after something bad has happened.
Heck, put the adult 4 stroke class at the back of the adult master TAGs. At least that would solve the adult verses Jr. liability issue that I am concerned with. I could handle haveing a bunch of fat old adults mad at me rather than a linch mob of Mom’s and Dad’s. 🙂Freeze, You took the words right outta my mouth, except I think they should run the jr2’s in Mr. Elliotts class since its B.S. and no big deal to him. OR like Mr. Elliott states ,just drink more beer and everything will be ok.
If this discussion is on the grounds of safety, the classes with the most equal lap times should run together.
All drivers follow the same etiquette so putting a 60 with a 30, 15 or 10 year old should not matter, as long as they are all the same speed. It starts to get messed up when a “young” inexperienced driver cannot compete with the other people on the track at the same time….
If there is a large spread of lap times in a class because some of the tail enders do not know how to drive, putting people like that in any mixed class increases risk as when they are lapped there is a high risk of something happening.Good point Superslow. I am glad to admit that most of my gripe is more on the grounds of liability rather than safety. It’s not that saftey is not just as important to me, yet when racing or even driving a car on the streets we all have to live with the odds of an accident possibily happening.
I may be a little dumb here, yet I don’t like or understand the liability odds of adults racing or driving with non-adults, if or when something happens like an accident the adult is the only legaly libel person involved.
It mat be :bs: to some but I want to have :cheers: with all the kids parents instead of :argue . … 🙂
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