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Simply driving on big tracks is boring in a kart. They’re really easy to drive and you never get tired.
However, racing on a big track is really really fun. The draft is a great equalizer, and you end up having these absurdly awesome drafting battles that go on for the entire race. To give you an example, I once raced in a SKUSA regional race at Gingerman Raceway in Michigan, a track that was much bigger than Second Creek. I qualified on pole by a second and a half, but the draft allowed two of the other guys to keep up when we went wheel to wheel. In the 30 minute main event, we had 6+ lead changes per lap every lap (sometimes multiple lead changes in a single straightaway), and crossed the finish line 3 wide at the end. I finished 3rd because I got outsmarted in using the draft. But it was fun as hell. So I would be personally be more interested in running there as a stop on a regional level series rather than just a practice day.
As far as safety goes, from what Greg was telling me about the track after driving a Formula Ford out there, I think it would be fine. Apparently there is a lot of runoff room – enough so that most full-size cars can get slowed down before hitting anything. Although a kart may very well be cornering faster, they are also a lot lighter. A 400lb kart requires a LOT less space to slow down than a 2000lb car. Also, the risk of wheel-to-wheel contact goes down because pulling wild moves down the inside to make a pass is pointless on a big track; it’s so much easier to use the draft to pass. Second Creek was dangerous for karts because it relied on walls to stop errant cars instead of runoff room. Greg might be able to chime in more.
WKA would be the best contact if they want a national sanctioning body’s input, as WKA has a strong road race program in several parts of the country.
Just a couple quick thoughts from me…
I would imagine that there is a fair bit of mutual repsect between racers in open wheel cars on a track like this. On a sprint track the speeds arent relatively that high, so we can rough around a little, but on a fast track like this the consequences would be much greater. The track is much wider and smoother than a sprint track, so there is plenty of room to race & pass without getting dicy. These karts may go fast, but there isnt a whole lot of inertia there, so if things do go wrong they slow down quickly. The runoff at this place is HUGE, not a problem for karts. I like to compare kart racing to motorcycle racing to the uninitiated. Both are high performance vehicles with no restraints for the driver, and they let motorcycles out there. Karting is much safer from the fact that driver error in a kart might end with you in the weeds and a little dusty, whereas on a bike you could be looking at the bad end of a highside…and there is no good end to that.
Yes, many of the corners would be flat in a kart, but I dont think its that big of a deal with the low intertia that these things have and the runoff at HPR. I wouldn’t consider a kart any less safe here than a big open wheel car…say a Formula Ford. Heck, if they are concerned with the length of the track and the speeds that we would reach, there are a couple cutoffs that we could use to make a shorter track.
I think its safe to say that karting in Colorado is pretty much 100% sprint karting, road racing has its spot in the sport, no doubt. I can’t think of a better place to grow road racing than HPR. Great as they are, Pueblo and LaJunta are too bumpy for karts.
Now, we are primarily talking sprint karts here, which begs the question…how many people – once they get a taste of a kart on a big track – will trade in for a Superkart? Aside from the Superkart that Barry had on display at the pepsi center, i don’t personally know of any other Superkarts in CO. Heck, once the secret gets out about Superkarts, how many people in cars would think about trading their ride for one? I know i would love a ride! 😈 Superkart dreams aside, i’ve never seen a better group of racers before, i’m sure that karts would be a fixture out there if they let us play. Just because this track is meant for big cars doesn’t mean that karts cant/shouldn’t/wouldn’t play, or wouldn’t be an appropreate addition to the customer base. We even race in parking lots… 😆
I think it’s pretty obvious that I want this to happen. I came from HPDEs in cars before I started karting, so i’ve always wanted to get out on a big track!
Just me $.02
(P.S. Superkarts are full bodied racecars if they’re concerned about the open wheel thing)
Excellent points guys. All things that I will make sure to communicate with Bill when the time comes.
Jeff, I fully understand what you mean about practicing vs racing at a big track. But I think for the powers that be at HPR it’s all the same in their mind. We need to get karts allowed out there first before any regional program is going to want to even attempt to run a race out there, so I think this is definately the way to start. That being said, I think that you are right about WKA being the best option for a national sanctioning body to possibly help. Although I was thinking SKUSA might be able to due to their re-entry into Colorado regional racing. The question remains though, does anybody have any contacts in either organization that may be willing to lend a hand here?
Superkarts, now that would be a hoot!!!! 👿
Keep the ideas coming people!!
@Doug Haner wrote:
Jeff, I fully understand what you mean about practicing vs racing at a big track. But I think for the powers that be at HPR it’s all the same in their mind. We need to get karts allowed out there first before any regional program is going to want to even attempt to run a race out there, so I think this is definately the way to start.
Agreed that they probably aren’t going to let anyone hold a race until they’ve had a successful test day or two. But I think the focus should be on getting a race there eventually.
@Doug Haner wrote:
That being said, I think that you are right about WKA being the best option for a national sanctioning body to possibly help. Although I was thinking SKUSA might be able to due to their re-entry into Colorado regional racing. The question remains though, does anybody have any contacts in either organization that may be willing to lend a hand here?
The SKUSA regional program coming to CO would be the ideal group to hold a race at HPR. However, if HPR is just looking for input from a national sanctioning body, SKUSA (under the current national leadership) has run very few if any races on road courses. WKA makes little sense as a sanctioning body to hold a race here right now, but they do have a lot of experience running karts on road courses and probably cen best provide the HPR folks with the reassurance they seem to be looking for.
@Jeff Welch wrote:
Agreed that they probably aren’t going to let anyone hold a race until they’ve had a successful test day or two. But I think the focus should be on getting a race there eventually.
I fully agree that the end goal is getting some races out there.
@Jeff Welch wrote:
The SKUSA regional program coming to CO would be the ideal group to hold a race at HPR. However, if HPR is just looking for input from a national sanctioning body, SKUSA (under the current national leadership) has run very few if any races on road courses. WKA makes little sense as a sanctioning body to hold a race here right now, but they do have a lot of experience running karts on road courses and probably cen best provide the HPR folks with the reassurance they seem to be looking for.
Good points.
I would love to race there but at $150. just for test and tune,the cost of a race would be unbearable for most racers.
Good point Greg, but at this point we don’t even have the option of running out there. I understand that in this current economy it’s hard to steal money from our family’s coffers to go racing. But the thing is that it may even work to our advantage. Although CAMA has tons of clubs to draw racers from, it couldn’t hurt them to have another source of income. I’m trying to head up this effort becuase I want us to simply have the opportunity to go racing there.
Here is what racing a kart at HPR would look like in a stock moto.
Hey Kirk, I think even you could tighten-up this poor guys front end a bit. His tuner needs some set-up help for sure.
Nice find Curt.
I’m still waiting to hear back from Kevin Williams, the District 10 Trustee for WKA. I’m hoping that they’ll be able to provide the feedback that HPR wants from a major karting sanctioning body. We’ll see.
If anybody else has any other contacts that may prove more beneficial let me know.
Any other input would also be very much appreciated.
How about Bernie Adamson?
He is a top rung promoter for road racing and very down to earth type individual. He may tell you to piss off, then proceed to give you the shirt off of his back. He was very generous in helping Rich Vito.
I am very interested in getting Superkart time on HPR.
Curt, I’ve seen onboard of Matty at Imi plowing worse than that? 😯
@Rick Schmidt wrote:
Curt, I’ve seen onboard of Matty at Imi plowing worse than that? 😯
It builds character Booby. I would never do that to a paying customer.
Both of us should have been turned into Child Services!!!
Roman races old rubber the first half season he raced. I taped his hand to the shifter handle when he started shifters and he ran 20 laps, if he came in with the tape broken, we retaped and did another 20? We are so abusive (to non paying customers)
Rick
I pay Jeff $200.00 per practice day and $350.00 per race day to work on his kart. I think I’m getting better at ruining his handling. I’ll turn both of you in to CPS as WORST PARENTS EVER!
Secretly Ricky, I may use your tape-the-hand method for myself. Someday I’ll be a super-tooner.
@Rick Schmidt wrote:
How about Bernie Adamson?
He is a top rung promoter for road racing and very down to earth type individual. He may tell you to piss off, then proceed to give you the shirt off of his back. He was very generous in helping Rich Vito.
I am very interested in getting Superkart time on HPR.
Curt, I’ve seen onboard of Matty at Imi plowing worse than that? 😯
I’ll try anything Rick. Do you have a contact number for him? If so, can you PM it to me? I missed you a couple of weeks back when I tried to give you a call, but I still have your number. If it’s okay with you I’ll try to get in touch with you sometime this week in the evenings. I still work 3rds, saves on child care, so it’s hard for me to get in touch with regular people sometimes. Maybe PM would be best.
Ohh and thanks to you, Curt, and Kirk for reviving this thread. It really needed it and it seems a thread really gets going when you three get involved.
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