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Looks like the only engines discussed here so far are the K80, Animal, and the Honda so I wanted to expand the discussion a bit. I would like to see a decision soon so spend money accordingly. Spring will be here before you know it and if there is a change, we might not be ready.
What was decided in the meeting about the world formula engine? This is a race prepared engine with everything needed to go racing including an electric starter, billet rod, heavy duty valve train, heavy duty clutch, air filter, and a rev limiter so you can’t blow the engine, all for $1000 and under brand new. All that is needed is a silencer and battery. I have heard that this engine can last up to 2 seasons, is this true? Looks like the only way to ruin this engine is to forget to put oil in it. That seems to me to be a very good deal even over the Honda engine if it needs to be built and blueprinted for reliability. Has anyone had experience with this motor?
George, Has the world formula classes at CRE been competitive and has the engine been reliable? How much are they at your shop?
As for the Animal engine, I have spent less than $800 on two animal engines, (one new found online, one used), a new clutch, and a clutch rebuild kit. We seemed to be competitive and limited to inexperience of the driver and kart setup. Nowhere near $1300 for one engine.
If someone needed to buy a new Animal setup:
New engine: $490.00 (fastermotors.net)
Clutch and drive sprockets: $150.00-$220
Header pipe and silencer: $35-$45
Chain guard: $10.00 (ebay)
Throttle cable setup: $20-$30
Timing key set for tuning: $10
Engine mount: $60
I may be missing something but total: ~$780-$860 all new.BTW, I still want to know where all the K80 racers were last season in the CSC.
Les
Unless I missed something at the meeting, the CSC Council decided that they would run the K-80 and/or the Honda in the Jr 1 class for 07.
I won’t speak for George at CRE. however, as a race team we participated in the World Formula Class at CRE in 06 both in the mens class and powder puff and had a great time with it. They are super engine packages and yes low maintenance. In my opinion, they will make atleast one whole season without rebuild (i.e. rings), obviously determined by how many races and practice session one puts on the engine and level of preventative maintenance. Recommend changing the oil after every race weekend and keep it jetted properly as to not run it lean. You’ll know if it’s not jetted correctly as it will run rough be down on power and plug readings will be off.
I do know that last season, Jim at “The Track” told my boss he would run the W/F at his club races if we had a minimum of 4 karts. Believe that minimum may change to 6 or more for 07 however. Check with the track owners.
Anyone who knows more please chime in. Best of luck Les.
Respectfully
Eddy
Meek Motorsports, LLCWhat I heard at the meeting was that Jr 1 for next season would include both the Honda and K80, though I wasn’t clear if they would directly compete. (I recall no discussion as to whether or on what basis they were assumed to be at the same level of performance). And that in 2008, the K80 would be dropped and the only Jr 1 motor would be the Honda. I don’t believe there was any discussion of weights with either motor.
We’re no longer in the Jr 1 class, so I wasn’t paying as close attention as I would have in past years; if I mis-heard (or mis-remember) something, I’m sure Angie will clear things up.
Les, I attended the meeting that was held a few weeks ago and will tell you what I heard. Please understand that it is not official and the CSC at the end of the meeting was going to post info very soon on the CSC website if I am not mistaken.
Anyway, there will be two classes for Junior 1 next year same as last year except Animal is gone; K80 and ?sealed? Honda. I didn?t hear anything regarding weights or other engine specific details, but since their ?feeling? is the minis are too fast that an intermediate class is still needed, I would bet that these classes will be, by designed, very close together in lap times. Anyway, both classes will also run together but be scored separately and after this coming year the K80s will be dropped. Good or bad, finally one motor package for Junior 1 in the 08 season.
Les, I believe Angie has answered these questions under, “CSC 2007 ? The Basics” thread.
Dribbles form an unrespected Paint Dry’er,
Is there a honda or comer motorsports division that you can contact when troubles are found in the use of there equipment for kart racing?
How much does honda and comer give to kart racing nation wide in efforts to promote kart racing.
How many revisions has the comer and honda motor had in order to make it more dependable for kart racing?
I have no experiance in the use of the comer or honda industrial motors. But I have been keeping up with about every revision and change that has been made over the last few years that Briggs & Stratton Motorsports Division has made while answering the needs of kart racers that use them.
The Briggs and Statton Motorsports Park at Road America is just one of the test beds of the kart specific engine that is being improved upon day after day in order to replace the most commen kart engine in America, the briggs 5 HP flathead.
Just within the last couple of years the animal and WF have had many changes made in the manufacturing of the kart motor to make them a viable choice in the requirements that people gathered here are requesting.
Here is a small list of changes Briggs has made to the Briggs Racing OHV’s while taking care of there kart customers requests.
1. five revisions to the block’s design
2. four revisions to the flywheels design
3. 1 rev. of the ignition system
4. 1 rev. of the cranks design
5. rev. of the rod design
6. completed testing and manufacturing of restrictor packages for all classes.That doesn’t even include the advantages Briggs has buildt into there Motorsports products over there industrial line of equipment.
Sure I do like many other brands of motors, yet I do also like the price point and the attention that Briggs & Stratton Motorsports is now giving to the sport of kart racing in areas that choose to promote the use of there product.
Be it Sprint/Speedway/Enduro kart racing, Briggs is being used with real success in meeting the needs of Pro and Novice kart racers in many areas of our country that promote the race teams and families for participating in the classes established for them.
For some reason that has not happened in our karting communitty. I don’t care if you are going to be the next best thing to strap on gloves for any kind of racing. Take a look at the number of families that attended and participated in one little “briggs” race in Tunica last week. Shure it was an indoor little oval. But my hat is off to the promoter that puts it togather for over 1,000 kart racers.The “secrete” in Colorado is our great success we see with 5 sprint tracks to play on with millions of people available to play with. I am glad to see the CSC going to a 5 race schedual, as I think that it may enhance what each track chooses to promote in their own events.
Paints Dry,
LaterThe Honda engine for Jr1 is a GX200 which will be using a Tillotson carb with linkage, EC Birt manifold, Mikuni fuel pump, K&N style air filter, RLV stainless exhaust with muffler, 2-Disk adjustable clutch, engine mount, Each engine is disassembled, governor removed and then they are measured and matched for cylinder to piston height, head CC. The valves are adjusted, manifold matched to head, ignition clearance set. Then they are inspected and side cover, head and valve cover bolts sealed by the tech director. You will be able to adjust the carb and clutch only with no modifications allowed on either. We have decided to use the rope start instead of the onboard electric to keep the cost down. You may add a starter nut if you wish to use a hand held starter. The gear ratio will be set for each track to keep the rpm below 6000. The lap times are comparable to the Comer 80. The price to purchase the package is $850 and will be available from most kart shops in Colorado. You will also be able to rent an engine package by the race for $35 or you can sign a contract to lease purchase a new engine package and keep it on your kart for $75 per month for 12 months. This is the same engine which we use for kart rentals with a different carb, manifold, exhaust and clutch. The engines will not have a problem with the valve train when used below 6000 rpm. We have over ten years of experience with the Honda and it is the most reliable engine for this class. We run them hard for three or four years before we work on them.
Freeze, (the original Briggs aficionado)
If Briggs really knew what they were doing they would not have to make so many changes to their engines. How many versions of the flat head and Animal are out there? They still have not figured out that the screws that hold the exhaust to the head are too small along with all of the other weaknesses like no two engines are built the same. What has Briggs ever done for Colorado racing in way of support or anything for that matter?
Blink, Has it been decided what will be running at the IMI club races? Just wondering if we will be able to run the animals anywhere. It was stated in the posts here that there will be a place for the animals somewhere, there is just too many of them. The hot rodder in me still would like to tweak and tune these motors. This is the most fun I have had working on making something go faster in a long time.
Also, in my opinion, the JR1 animals should have been given the same 1 year notice as the K80’s that they will be dropped from the CSC instead of the cloud of rumors hanging around all year. I am glad there is a multi-year plan now so that people will know that there investments will be able to last several years. I believe this will only help families in making their decision to try kart racing when parents bring their kids to the track to watch a race or rent a kart.
Blink, Nice package for a sealed spec class.
I do have to defend “Briggs” a little more sence I dought any one else will.“The engines will not have a problem with the valve train when used below 6000 rpm.”
Humm, I bet the animal or WF would last a good while too if kept below 6,000 rpm.
“weaknesses like no two engines are built the same”
“then they are measured and matched for cylinder to piston height, head CC.”Why do you have to do that sence all the Honda’s are built the same?
“What has Briggs ever done for Colorado racing in way of support or anything for that matter?”
What has Colorado done to gain any support from Briggs or even a Briggs racer for that matter?
Blink has been about the best supporter of Briggs racers just by allowing us to use his playground. But that is about the only thing George and Blink have in commen.I am not saying a spec sealed motor class is a poor decision. I hope it turns into big local class of karters having fun. I just wanted to point out the “what if’s” that could happen if Colorado promoted and supported a motor that all ready has set rules and is being used nation wide by many more karting families than Colorado could ever obtain while useing an industrial motor for intertainment.
“Freeze, (the original Briggs aficionado)”
I know there is very little hope for my affection with Briggs motors here.
I guess someday I hope to be able to buy a motor to race with from Blink too.
Will the 4cycleTAG class have front brakes?Freeze, front brakes yes!
I don’t think a Jr1 should be using a 15hp World Formula engine and yes it probably would last twice as long at 6000rpm, maybe even the whole summer!
We have taken apart many Honda’s and measured them and they are very consistent but we still must check every engine to be sure they are the same and correct them if necessary.
We have sold and built Briggs engines since IMI has been in business and will still support them in the future. It is my opinion that the Honda is a better investment for the future of the sport at the Jr level.
It is also my opinion that nationally karting has suffered from the same rules that you support for Briggs. Their rules make karting more complex and expensive, this is one of the main reasons that karting has not been able to ever grow beyond a certain level. There has to be some part of this sport that is inexpensive to get into and inexpensive to run, especially for children. The rules have always left too much room for experimenting and blueprinting which results in the added financial ?competition? element to the formula.
There have been hundreds of customers in my shop looking to get into the sport with their children and the two most common objections are cost and complexity. If we can offer a package, which is inexpensive to purchase, low maintenance and simple to understand and operate, the objections will be overcome. This will also keep people in the sport longer when they are having fun being competitive without having to spend money on the engine every week.Real nice points in your post Brad.
Please tell me more about this 4 stroke TAG class.
Is the TAG masters class getting front brakes too?The new TAG 4-stroke class will be using the three new 250cc engines just approved by TAGUSA. The new Biland, Oral and Vampire. The engines are 34HP 13,000 rpm. They will run at 400lbs if run in one class. There will be weights for a Senior and Masters class which may run 370/410. There will be front brakes only for 4-stroke.
Your shifter chassis would work fine for this class Freeze.
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