- March 25, 2011 at 3:04 am #43573Joe RosseParticipant
OK, so if we wanted to run all the local series, and in Rotax as well as shifter, we need to get:
So I can either invest in a new storage shed for all the tires we’re going to need for testing/setup, practice and racing, or we can decide to cut back on our racing. So exactly how does this help the karter on a budget–or any of the promoters?
Yes, Roger, saving $30-40 on tires sounds nice, but now I have to worry about setup on the Maxxis, they won’t be useful for practice (or club racing) anywhere else, and I’ve got to stock more tires if I don’t want to wait until race day to get them. (Ditto, Curt, for SKUSA-branded MGs–but without the savings.) Similarly, using pump gas sounds nice, but then I’d have to worry about the fuel tank/lines getting contaminated and not passing tech elsewhere (been there, done that), not to mention having to figure out if different jetting will be required for optimal running. Yes, race fuel is pricey, but if you only use a few gallons in a race weekend, the price differential is peanuts compared to the costs of towing the kart to the track. (Heck, the savings would be eaten up by having to buy–and find space for–another fuel jug for the different fuel!)
I get it that these tire deals help promoters cover the costs of the races–but that doesn’t do anyone any good if racers decide not to show up because it’s too much hassle having to adjust. Mostly they make sense for racers who only plan to race their own, home series. And that does nothing to build kart racing in the state.March 25, 2011 at 4:33 am #64910Butler CoxParticipant
I continue to be amazed, surprised, and confounded about how this sport’s erstwhile kingpins continue to fail to learn how to market to what should be their prime customer prospects. This sport is killing itself, and not softly with a song. I re-entered karting last year for the fun of it and now, because I am being forced to shell out more dough just to have the “privilege” of entering certain venues, because the karting cannot get its act together and work cooperatively for the benefit of grass roots karting. I don’t mind paying fair track time rates or entry fees, but I’m not going to shell out for different tires for different venues. I’ll likely cancel my plans to haul over to those venues.
We’re not so erudite over here on the Western Slope. In fact we’re planning to provide some racing for anyone who wants to bring what you got. To H— with the this latest industry trend; sure maybe its OK for the semi & pro competitors, but its nonsense to the rest of us who out number the pros vastly. The rest of us just want to get out there and have fun without burning holes in our wallets each and every time.
We’re going to invite anyone who wants to bring just about anything to come over and just get it on…for the fun of it…not to pad someone else’s pocket…just for the joy of racing…the joy that too many people want to X out of karting it seems. Race what you got. And you’ll get something besides another closet full of tires. Stay tuned.March 25, 2011 at 8:05 pm #64911[email protected]Participant
Great posts, Joe and Butler.
Once you make even karting a rich man only sport, that’s all that’ll be left to race….. racing on Visa only lasts so long.March 25, 2011 at 10:41 pm #64912Kirk DeasonParticipant
@[email protected] wrote:
….. racing on Visa only lasts so long.
For me, that was about 3 seasons–and the third was stretching it waaay too thin. I don’t blame anyone else, I was the one who knew (deep down) that I couldn’t afford this. Tires being 40 bucks a set cheaper would not have kept me going any longer. I still dream, though…one of these days, TEAM HARDKART will be back with a couple ICA motors to terrorize the run what ya brung class! Until then, I’m happy wrenching and being around people who love to go fast.
I aspire to racing geezerdom like Kistler and Schmidt, two guys who have really helped me out. I’ll pay it forward.March 26, 2011 at 2:14 am #64913Rick SchmidtParticipant
I aspire to racing geezerdom like Kistler and Schmidt, two guys who have really helped me out.
Shooting pretty low there Kirk?March 26, 2011 at 4:16 pm #64914
I’m surprised at the quick response to the tire PPKRC has chosen to race at PPIR. Part of our mission as a non-profit 501 3c is to provide a affordable race for our club members. As a racer I was not aware of the cost to put on a race until we formed PPKRC and had to address the cost of Track rental at PPIR. Without saying how much it cost to rent PPIR, its expensive to say the least. Until someone stands up and sponsors a portion of the rental cost, we have been put into a position of offsetting cost. A win-win was to look at how we could keep the entry fees down, find a way to offset the increase in rental cost at PPIR and find a tire that we could use that was less expensive. We along with Jim are allowing folks to use pump gas in order to reduce overall cost to the racer. You are more then welcome to race any tire you want in our series, but will not recieve points if you don’t join PPKRC and use the MAAXIS tire. Next time before over reacting please call either Eddy or myself to better understand the process we went through. As one of you mentioned, this type of conversation without truly understanding the facts is want is causing karting to be screwed up by a few with miss information. I now have a better understanding why all the Track owners and promoters feel the way they do, can’t seem to please anyone, even if we listen when folks are crying about the cost. Please come and attend our Club meeting on April 9th at 9:00 at PPIR and find out what is really going on. Joe to answer your question about how many tires you need to buy, It’s only one if you race with us all six races and want points to be applied at the end of season. And Butler shame on you for thinking that We are trying to create another Kingpin, I’m racing at all the tracks this year and buying whatever tire they use at that track and supporting that series without questioning why or how they run their program or business. Please send me and email at [email protected] to discuss or help sponsor a race. We have had great response from our club members about reducing cost and using the less expensive MAAXIS tires and using pump gas. When it comes right down to it, the challege of setting up a kart for either a track or tire comes every time you race at a new track, thats half the fun of racing. You might just find out that the MAAXIS tire isn’t much different then the MOJO or MG, just a whole lot less expensive. So if I use either one of your logic, it would mean that neither of you will be racing at any of the tracks this year beacuse that track or promoter made a business decision that allows it to stay in business, and without that business decison being made, we as racer may not have any place to race because they will be out of business. We made a business decision based on input from the racing community about cost and wanting to stay in business while providing a safe, fun and affordable environment for our CLUB members. Bring what you have and race it. We are still inclusive!!
PPKRCMarch 27, 2011 at 1:58 am #64915Greg WelchParticipant
No particular order, this is what I see we have.
Rotax: Mojo tire
6 MHC Races at The Track
4 RTR Races in CO
Rotax Pan AM, 5 races one in CO
A ROTAX race literally every single weekend somewhere in the country, from as close as Utah to as far away as Florida. You can take your kart from here and run anywhere in the world with every rule the same except for 1 item, fuel.
SKUSA: Skusa MG tire
3 Skusa MR races, 2 in CO one in UT
2 Pro Tour races, one in CO
4 Regional Skusa series in America from Indiana to Hawaii
Same rules/tires/fuel in every series
TaG USA/ PPKRC: Maxxis
6 PPKRC races
10 announced Tag regional series, 2 in CO.
Tires choices may vary in each series.
Tag world finals??
IKF 4 cycle grandsMarch 27, 2011 at 1:14 pm #64916Rodney EbersoleParticipant
One more Greg,
CLIT : (Colorado Local Ice Tour) with Snow Hogs and silver rocket studs Dec. & Jan. 😛March 27, 2011 at 6:17 pm #64917
Remember, you can run any tire you want at our races, if you want to gain points in our club you need to run the MAAXIS tires. I suggest you buy a set to see what we found out about the MAAXIS tire. Talk to Robby Mott at RIBTECH who is the national distributor of the MAAXIS tire, and see how he did when racing the MAAXIS tire against the MOJO and MG Yellows. After many conversations about this topic its about 50-50 on this move. What we heard last year is that the Karting community wanted a new venue to race at, open tire, fun and safe environment and a national points series for the club members. What we have had to deal with is the higher price of track rental and to offset it we need to have either 70 plus racers every weekend or find a way to offset the difference in rental cost by finding a means to make up the difference. So we found a solution, keep the open tire for those who only race a few times with us and no points, and for those who want to support the PPKRC, keep the venue at PPIR a viable one, use the MAAXIS tire to help offset track rental cost. With any Series you need to choose a tire and go with it. Trying to keep everyone happy has been a challenge to say the least, some what only MOJO’s, some what only MG Yellow’s some say use what SKUSA is using, I myself would like just only one tire. There’s a reason each series picks a tire and that is to make enough extra money to offset the cost of putting on the race. Most track owners will tell you that they don’t make really any money putting on races, in some case they lose revenue. It’s expensive to put on a race, after some of the conversations I’ve had recently with folks it’s apparent that some didn’t realize the cost to put on a race, they just show up and expect everything to be just perfect for little or no cost. When you show up at these tracks around Colorado I beleive most of us take for granted what it takes to put on a race and make it as safe and competitive as possible. I know that Jim, Brad, Stacey, SKUSA, CJKC and PPKRC do our best to provide an atmoshpere that most will enjoy at a affordable price, knowing that each has its own business challenges in todays environment. We as racers are also challenged by the economics of today, where do we race, how much will it cost to go there, what fuel will I use, what tire do I need to buy, what is the enrty fee. A decision was made to go to pump gas by several venues in order to save on cost, and yes it has an effect on tuning along with what tire you use. We followed with the fuel decision, and considered what tire to use at PPIR, the harder tire compound seems to work the best and the next best thing to a MOJO was the MAXXIS HG3 and the MH for the shifter/Fourstrokes. The savings on tires for some is considerable at about $50 when you consider there is no shipping cost when you buy directly from us at $175 a set. Just like with any tire you get in a rotation of tires once you purchase the first set. Again if you are running all six races at PPIR its makes sense and is much cheaper to race with the pump gas and MAAXIS tires, it you only race a few times then run your tires that you run at any of the other tracks. Bottom line we all buy new tires everytime we race anyway, so you either spend $175 a set or $212 a set, its you pocket book. As far as set up on the kart we didn’t see much difference at all when we ran the MG Yellow against the MAAXIS MH and very little difference with the HG3.
PPKRCMarch 27, 2011 at 10:32 pm #64918Joe RosseParticipant
Thanks for your replies, Roger. Allowing people to run open tires if they’re not collecting points certainly helps.March 28, 2011 at 4:08 am #64919Craig MansfieldParticipant
I sorry that I have another meeting already set. I would like to race my DD2 at your track what class is open to me?
Craig Mansfield 303 242 2929March 28, 2011 at 5:50 am #64920Butler CoxParticipant
Roger Miller wrote:
And Butler shame on you for thinking that We are trying to create another Kingpin, I’m racing at all the tracks this year and buying whatever tire they use at that track and supporting that series without questioning why or how they run their program or business. Please send me and email at [email protected] to discuss or help sponsor a race.
Roger, I have sent you many emails and PMs since last October (including this tire issue), as well as left several voicemails. What assurance do I have that any email I address to you this time on this, or any other subject, will get a response now as opposed to all the other previous messages??
Since your beer is miles above other venues, will you accept my application for the Summer CLIT tour?March 28, 2011 at 4:52 pm #64921larrylParticipant
the biggest problem is to many promoter’s!(6? for 150 racers) we only need three, two in the front range one on the west side.March 28, 2011 at 6:21 pm #64922
PPKRC is not a promoter, it’s a club, with PPIR being our home track. We are supporting and growing the Southern Colorado market by providing a venue for southern Colorado Racers just like IMI and GJMS do for the north and west. Our goal along with PPIR is to eventually have a purpose built kart track underconstruction within the next few years to replace our former track (CRE). We are focusing on growing karting by creating the Youth Sponsored Racing League (YSRL), having a inclusive race series for all karters, developing new karters, and providing a new race venue for all karters. Our Club is supported by SCCA, NASA and the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb Assoication. Our Club is part of the PPIR ladder program that supports any racer that wants to start out in karting and move onto Legends, F2000, Spec racing, Vintage and so on, what other Track, Promoter or club offers that to any of the karters in Colorado. Larry the karting community made it clear that they wanted something new and we listened. PPKRC took the input and created that something new at a great venue, PPIR, our last race had nearly 70 karters participate and they made it clear that we were on the right track with our model. PPKRC encourages every karter in Colorado to support as many tracks, promoters, clubs, local kart shops, and tunners as you can. We are focused on growing karting by being as positive as possible about our sport and trying to bring young and old folks into it. What’s driving folks away from karting is the negative stuff, rumors, lack of real facts, until we all start to support each other, your right 150-200 will disappear because we screwed it all up by not listening to the racers and the racers not supporting the Tracks, promoters, local kart shops and clubs. We can then just sit and look at our karts in the garage wondering what happened. Race where you want, but race and be positive when talking to those who want to get into karting. I’ve raced in one form or another since I was five years old and never seen a motorsports community less supportive and negative as the karting community, this needs to change and soon for the best, it only takes a few to be negative, and ruin it for all the rest. I hope others will read this and the karters who do support karting in Colorado regardless of who they support start to speak out. We need to understand the fact that no one person has all the right answers when it come to Karting, and that everyone has the right to a opinion, but let’s share that opinion in positive way.March 28, 2011 at 8:02 pm #64923larrylParticipant
ROGER YOUR PROMOTING YOUR CLUB?? I UNDERSTAND THE STAGE IS NO
PLACE TO ARGUE WITH THE AUDIENCE, BUT IF YOU ASK 100 RACERS A
QUESTION YOU WILL GET 100 DIFFERENT ANSWERS. THE BEST THING
FOR KARTING IN THIS DAY AND AGE IS TO PUT ALL OF THEM IN THE
SAME PLACE AT THE SAME TIME AND RACE. THE SUN WILL COME OUT AND ALL OUR PROBLEMS WILL GO AWAY!!!!
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