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We are putting together a Spec Moto Heavy kart for Roman next year and know of 4 others who are doing the same.
Seems like the shifter classes here are not what they used to be or what they could be. So I thought I would make a few comments here on the forum.
We ran an Icc for 2 1/2 years and never even stuck a piston. I did maintain the bottom ends religiously, (expensive) topped the motor every other race or every race depending on the amount of fuel consumed that weekend, (fairly expensive) also went through or changed reeds in short intervals, (fairly expensive) and had a complete Swedetech sitting in the trailer, just in case. (damn expensive) I know there are very reasonable Icc packages out there right now and don’t want to take anything away from them at all. But if you are running them and want to run up front, you had better be poised to spend the time and money to compete with the racers who stay ahead on preparation of these motors.
If you decide to run a SM, you have as good of chance as anyone, provided your driving skill and carb / chassis tuning is there. And you should get excellent service out of one of these packages. We have one of the best SM engine builders in the country here. Yes Barry builds excellent Icc and other engine packages as well. And again, don’t want to take anything away from him or the other engine builders out there. But if an equal, low running cost engine is good for the racer. It’s good for the shops.
Not expecting everyone to dump their stuff and go buy something else at all. But thinking ahead a little maybe needed in The Colorado karting scene.
Maybe dreaming a little here, but after watching our shifter fields get a more amenic the past few years. Some Pro’s in Pro, some on a SM, some on a built moto etc…
Wouldn’t it be cool to see a SM Heavy grid with Doc Conyers, Patrick Koetges, Aaron Sherman, Roman Gutierrez, Charles Gordon, Scott Allen, Gary Jabocs, Justin Meuller, Craig Neff, Ron Reed, Mike Jansen, Jim Keesling, Mike Cunningham, Perry Herman, Rick Samu, Ken Petrie, Tom Dennin, Mark Krivanek and on and on…
That’s just the heavy class. Wouldn’t it be cool to get everyone to the fence watching when the shifters run? Again?
Rick
Ricky dude, DD2 HEAVY may be the way I’m going, still not sure :loony:
I’m in! It would be more cost effective and could help by both building the number of racers while cutting number of classes. I confess this is kinda my program anyway so it looks good to me.
It’s All Good
Old Guys Drool er Rule
Craig A. Neff G1 17xWe have always been shifter guys at heart. We got our first shifter just over ten years ago. We raced just about all of them, from 60cc through 80cc, built 125cc moto and built ICC. We got our first stocker 2 years ago and it by far is the cheapest shifter we’ve run. In two years of running, I’ve had only one failure, and we run ours hard.
You can spend a bunch of money on them if you want but you won’t get anymore power than just a good basic engine. They are a bit more of a hassle to put together because you have to get the parts (pipe, carb, mount, etc, ) from different sources but the end result is fast, dependable and relatively cheap.
Rick, you’re right we have seen the shifter classes dwindle over the past few years. I think it is directly related to the high cost of running one. Either built moto or ICC, they both cost way too much for the average karter. The stocker on the other hand goes almost as quick, with far less brain damage. In two years, I replaced the crank once, the piston twice. I also wore out a clutch. My motor does not have a big name on it ( Barry did the crank, I do the top) but at the recent SuperNats, there were certainly a bunch of big name motors behind us. We certainly felt that we had as much power as anyone. Like any engine, learn to tune the carb.
We have a couple of customers moving to spec Honda, it only makes sense. We’ve also sold a couple of DD2, another great choice for those looking to go faster than a Tag but can’t spend an arm and a leg to maintain it.
Adding a heavy spec Honda along with the masters DD2 were very wise moves.
I’d like to move into Spec Moto (I’m not heavy), but it would take some super deal on an engine package to get me on it this coming year. Weighing my options, it looks like I should freshen up my shifter and run 08 building more experience.
Perry,
The DD2 is an excellent choice as well. I don’t think you can wrong with either package really. IF Rotax has a program for running DD2 Heavy at the Colorado qualifiers and further the Grands, it would be an awesome choice.
We are not big time pro racers and don’t have 80k – 100k disposable, to spend chasing a national series. We are proffesional Karters though. We race karts as a means to an end. Good chance Roman will not be the next F1 driver. If karts are all he races, I would say his racing career is a success and was a hell of a lot of fun. We do however enjoy going to a few one off races and race against these pro drivers and others like us. We think, on any given day, we can beat some of the top drivers. And one of our favorite out of town races is the Super Nationals and want to race a class supported there. We may also get in a So Cal race or two. 20, 30 or 50 entries sounds like fun. Maybe even a road race, and the SM fits in rather well there as well. Plus, it would be cool to run the same class at these big races that you raced at your home series for the year.
Wouldn’t it be fun to race against the fields we had in G1 (or the other shifter classes) a few years back? Or bigger? Thats all I’m saying. Plus Roman likes and misses pounding through the gear box, hammering the shifter 4 times under heavy threshold braking before turn in, and so on.
Love Rotax. May do a few one offs there as well. Who knows.
What would be a drag to witness is, the declining shifter fields just spread out more. 3-5 Pro Shifters, 3-5 Spec light, 3-5 Spec Heavy, 3-5 DD2 Light, 3-5 DD2 Heavy and so on. Who wants to race with a podium or near podium automatically factored in? We would rather run in the top 10% of a very large field qualified of racers than the before mentioned scenario.
Just some thoughts.
Rick
Rick,
I’m going run Spec Moto Heavy this year. I’ve been hoping for this class to run here in Colorado for the past couple of years, so when I saw that it was going to happen this year I ordered one. Doug Welch at Shockwave is putting a kart together for me now. I can’t wait to try it.
Craig, I’m glad to see you’re going to be in the class, too. We’ve seen each other a lot at the races the past couple of years, but we’ve never gotten to race against each other.
Charles
Rick,
You and Roman will love spec moto. It really is a great class- very very competitive, its not too hard on the wallet, and they are fast! The carb is extremely easy to jet, just dial in the chassis and you’ll be there. We have seen a few blow up, but its pretty rare. I’ve yet to see a motor lean-stick, its always the ring snagging that causes a cease <sp?. Bottom ends can go too If you don't check up on them. I recomend the spec class to everyone. Beginner, expert, young, old, skinny, fat, pregnant, whatever!Doug,
Not trying to stir the pot, but I thought you had one of the first Leary motors??? Regardless, its true that the “big name” motor builder doesn’t do much. But what they don’t do, you have to do. So it doesn’t matter who does it, there’s just a few things that need to be done. I would just rather have Reine :king do it then myself!Rick,
I have decided to run DD2 heavy.
Mabey light if I can stop eating.
I was thinking of a tag masters as a second kart. I you could convince enough of the g1 and tag masters guys
to come and play, you can count me in.
Looking forword to next year no matter what class.Regards,
JackCharles I look forward to seeing you in a shifter. I have some tech questions for our new tech dude.
Post by jibco on Thu 01 3, 2008 2:00 pm
I’d like to move into Spec Moto (I’m not heavy), but it would take some super deal on an engine package to get me on it this coming year. Weighing my options, it looks like I should freshen up my shifter and run 08 building more experience.Jeff,
You had an awesome season. If it is not in the cards to go with a Spec moto, don’t worry. Just keep getting seat time anyway you can. If you can swing a Spec moto, get one. You’ll know better where you stand as a driver. The next guy having a “A level” Icc motor against yours, that may have been around the block a few times makes it hard to calibrate your driving ability, to some degree. If you cannot swing one, just race with whatever makes the thing go so you can get laps. Seat time is more important than anything. The last thing I want is for the newer racers to think they have to go out and replace what they have now. Although, you may have surprised yourself toward the end of the season running a Sm against other Sm’s.
Post by cgordon on Thu 01 3, 2008 2:24 Rick,I’m going run Spec Moto Heavy this year. I’ve been hoping for this class to run here in Colorado for the past couple of years, so when I saw that it was going to happen this year I ordered one. Doug
Welch at Shockwave is putting a kart together for me now. I can’t wait to try it.Charles,
This certainly isn’t your first rodeo. You are an accomplished Tag driver. After some seat time, as you well know, shifting will not even be a conscious effort. You will learn to drive with your left hand more predominantly. The brutal urgency of a shifter will blend well with the smooth hands you’ve learned driving cars and Tag karts. You and Roman have spent many laps within inches of one another, and look forward to doing this again while grabbing gears.
You’ll love your Crg… Any of our 6 years tuning one is available to you. Down load this manual as your kart is being built. Study it. It is one of the best chassis and tuning manuals I’ve ever come across. You’ll gain a lot from it.
http://www.pitstopkartshop.com/crg-setup-guide.pdf
Post by jack tracy on Thu 01 3, 2008 7:47 pm
Rick,
You and Roman will love spec moto. It really is a great class- very very competitive, its not too hard on the wallet, and they are fast! The carb is extremely easy to jet, just dial in the chassis and you’ll be there. We have seen a few blow up, but its pretty rare. I’ve yet to see a motor lean-stick, its always the ring snagging that causes a cease <sp?. Bottom ends can go too If you don't check up on them. I recomend the spec class to everyone. Beginner, expert, young, old, skinny, fat, pregnant, whatever!Jack
Cody, get your own damn user name here. Lol! You guys are living proof of the competitiveness of this package! Closest thing I’ve seen to restrictor plate racing in karts has been you guys running in the Sm class. It was fun to watch. No one could disagree with this.
Post by jackfdx on Thu 01 3, 2008 8:19 pm
Rick,
I have decided to run DD2 heavy.
Mabey light if I can stop eating.
I was thinking of a tag masters as a second kart. I you could convince enough of the g1 and tag masters guys
to come and play, you can count me in.
Looking forword to next year no matter what class.Regards,
JackWell Jack,
Before you start eating again, make certain the DD2 Heavy will be a guaranteed offering at the Rotax Grand Nationals next year. Talk to Ramos Sr. to get confirmation before you let your regimen slack! You know what it cost last year to attempt being competitive in this class. I really am appealing to the Tag Masters / G1 guys to come and race. The Spec Moto could be “the class” to watch / be in. I forgot so many names while posting earlier at work. The dream grid would include racers like; Jack Warrington, The Davis brothers, Stacey Cook, Sam Walls and many more.
Jack, some of the best rivalries I’ve seen since we started racing karts has been you and Roman. Does that mean you’re a better driver as an adult than my young driver? Maybe so. Have we enjoyed the level of competition? Hell yea! I am a fan and spectator as much as a tuner or whatever you want to call me. I like a good race. Sometimes find myself pulling for whoever is behind at the time! Does that make any sense? I’m a little sick I guess! Anyway, competing against you has always been one of the most anticipated battles we’ve waged.
I think Rotax will see slightly reduced numbers in this region next year just because the Grands are not in our back yrad, but still a very worthy series to compete. Wait till 2009 here in Colorado. Some racers will drop what they are doing to race in what will be the biggest, best Rotax Grands ever! In our back yard again! Keesling doesn’t half a$$ anything he does and the Colorado racing community will leave a much bigger impact next time!
Stay with your DD2. You’ve lost enough weight that you have a chance even in the regular DD2 class. If you choose Tag Masters or a Shifter class, they will have all they can handle with you in any case!
Rick
@jack tracy wrote:
….. I thought you had one of the first Leary motors???
I did send my original box of parts to Paul for assembly. But after I found out what he was doing (nothing), I decided to go a different route. The engine thats on our kart now is just a simple stocker. You’re right about snagging a ring. We lost one last year that took out the cylinder. It was our fault, just tried to get too many hours out of it. That was back when you couldn’t get a ’99 cylinder so I put a ’97 on it. Didn’t seem to make a bit of difference. Last year when the ’99 became available again, I put a ’99 back on it. Then late this year, I put a new crank in it as a precaution as the old one had almost 2 years on it.
The only thing that has been done to it is basically a very careful assembly. The crank has been slip fitted and trued of course, but everything up top, cylinder, piston, reed cage, head and all the gaskets are OEM Honda. We do use Carbon Tech reeds, but reeds are open and the Carbon Tech hold up longer than the stockers. I did switch from the RCE to the RLV pipe, but I really can’t tell the difference. I expect that we will run until mid summer as it sits, then replace a piston about mid way through the year. Just before the SuperNats, we’ll crack it open just to check it out and make sure nothing needs replacing.
I did have couple of other small problems, all were our fault. We lost a bearing on the counter shaft drive, and the bushing under the shift arm below the clutch disintegrated. Parts of the bushing got into the shift drum and it wouldn’t shift. I guess you do need to change the oil more than once a year. The other was not tightening the chain when it was needed. It got too loose and whacked the case by the clutch input shaft. It broke the case. But Barry welded it up, we didn’t’ even disassemble it, and it works great.
So the bottom line of these things is simple, change the oil in the tranny once and a while and go run the heck out of it. Check the top end twice a year and the thing should give you hours of fun in the sun.
@Rick Schmidt wrote:
Jeff,
You had an awesome season. If it is not in the cards to go with a Spec moto, don’t worry. Just keep getting seat time anyway you can. If you can swing a Spec moto, get one. You’ll know better where you stand as a driver. The next guy having a “A level” Icc motor against yours, that may have been around the block a few times makes it hard to calibrate your driving ability, to some degree. If you cannot swing one, just race with whatever makes the thing go so you can get laps. Seat time is more important than anything. The last thing I want is for the newer racers to think they have to go out and replace what they have now. Although, you may have surprised yourself toward the end of the season running a Sm against other Sm’s.
Rick
Thanks, I appreciate the kinda words and a little reinforcement of my decision for 08. I’ll be watching the #s in SM and looking for a deal on a motor. I definitely see your point about comparison. We worked out a lot of new guy kinks last season and I would love a good place to see how I can measure up.
Anyone want to 2nd my intention of asking Barry to help out my YZ? I know this thread is about SM, sorry.
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