- This topic has 30 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 21 years, 2 months ago by
.
- Posts
Anyone who thinks that adding 50 pounds to a kart is safe, and has no effect on handling or set up, must be the same person that helped Brad do the math on the Tag weights. Tell me how 375 pounds + 20 adds up to 390 pounds for Brad’s motor, and 400 pounds for the Vortex Rok motor?
Skusa/ Tag Usa, love them or hate them, did the testing for all of us. 🙂
How can a track owner change, or STACK the deck in his or her favor just because the numbers dont favor the motor they sell. 👿
Brad, it seems you are the only one in the country qualified to read a dyno, and will go to any level to put your motor up front 👿
How about this for a refreashing change, FOLLOW the rules and let your drivers put your motor up front 💡 Listen to the drivers because they are the CSC ❗ Make it fair, fun and easy on the pocket ( MG Yellows ) so we can all keep doing it 😉
if people want to contradict the dyno readings, there is Mcgraths ex dyno at DNA at bandimere, lets run what skusa and tagusa decided on berryhills dyno, lets not just assume which motor is which. I do not think brad is the one who did the weights though, they are what was agreed on last year, they just need adjustment
Doug
I did not see you in Seattle when the engines were tested. I was there and I was only making my comments based on the results I viewed. If they posted the results for everyone to see you may have a different opinion. I would not “stack the deck” in favor of the engine I sell. If the Biland won every race then I would expect the weights to be adjusted, just as I would for any engine. We have had one season to see the results on the track and our weights from last year were close. I think that the weights SKUSA and TAGUSA are starting with do not match the results of the testing. In my conversations with Marty Casey of SKUSA he has assured me that adustments will be made at each promoto if necessary. The TAG class must keep the competition as close as possible to survive, it makes no sense to let one engine dominate. I just think that SKUSA could have started with weights that are closer to reality but I am satisfied that they will not wait half the season to make adjustments.
Brad, if you feel comfortable with SKUSA’s decision lets just follow their lead. They have to much at stake to let that get sideways don’t you think. Vortex ROK and Rotax 335lbs 😆
I think by now that people are starting to realize that each motor is going to have it’s own tracks that iit will excel on. If you use the basic assumption of equal driving ability then he Biland should dominate at Bandi and Steamboat with the Leopard being the second best motor package for that track. The Rotax should dominate at IMI and GJ again with the Leopard being the second best motor for these tracks. The problem is going to be the Sonik….if the changes that were made to the Sonik for last years nationals, then that motor will dominate all other packages no matter how much weight you put on the kart!
Based on the above assumptions then you should make individual track adjustments for weights as follows:
Rotax Biland Leopard
IMI +5/10 -5/10 Skusa/+5
GJ +5/10 -5/10 Skusa/+5
Bandi -10 +10 +5
Steamboat Skusa +10 +5That is about as unbiased of an opinion as I can give. The Biland has awesome bottom end torque….the rotax has awesome mid range….the leopard has average bottom and mid range. I’m sure that the dyno testing will back up those assumptions as well. Use Skusa weights as a base and add the above weights for each track and the racing will be close.
Brad, with all due respect, not all of us can run around the country to lobby for our best interest. But we also met with Marty at the show and reviewed the results, and are comfortable with there findings, until on track performance proves otherwise. My point is, now that we have a benchmark set by the powers to be, how can you or anyone else change the rules to favor a motor? If my memory serves me right, only 3 of those motor packages competed in our series last year. So how can you make a statment based on fairness, when only 3 out of 9 motor packages were observed last season in the CSC!!!
This is why Skusa/ Tag USA did the testing, set the mark, and decided to monitor the progress race by race. And I hope all the factors are taken into count when weight changes are made ie; Driver, chassis, set-up, experiance and all the others!!!
I also had visits with several chassis builders that expressed their concern about the added weight, many stated that the extra weight would have a major effect on their chassis design, and would use caution when adding 20 pounds over what they concider an ” Already over weight class “
Brad, I have no bad feelings for anyone, It just appears that we are moving backwards, not forwards. The season is right around the corner and there to many open ends.
Brad or anyone else who may know the answer,
How many individuals were part of the decision (directly) on the weight to be added for each specific engine package? Was there a vote or did one person simply make a decision based on their personal knowledge after the dyno testing?
When the dyno testing was being conducted were individuals there that were experts in dyno testing data analysis? If so, how many? If not, why not????
Thanks,
Tom
Tom, my understanding after talking to Rodney Berryhill who helped with the testing at his track in Oklahoma was that they ran both Dyno tests and actual on track tests comparing each motor to the other in the same chassis type.Rodneys phone # is 405-579-5278 maybe he could shed some light on the subject so we can put an end to it.
Stacey,
Thanks for the info.
What TAG engine packages are you selling? Are you a Rotax service center?
Tom
Tom, Yes we are carrying the Rotax package and the new Vortex ROK. We will give you an update after this weekend. Josh Swann who has the track record at GJMS in a TAG (he was driving a Rotax) will be testing his new ROK this weekend in the new CRG road rebel chassis. That is why I vote for the Rotax and ROK weight at 325 😆
Stacey,
Did Rodney indicate if Brad was at the tests in OK?
or
Brad,
Were you at the test that were conducted in OK by Rodney?
Tom
That is a good question, didn’t Brad say it was somewhere else, Like Washington? I just think that anyone of us that has an interest in any of these Motor packages should not be the onew making the call. Lets just follow the SKUSA/TAG guidelines and add 10lbs and forget about it. If they see that it needs adjsuting after the first event, Great lets do it.MG yellows or YHB’s
Brad was in Seatle, the other engines did not tune them for the altitude and several ran like fat pigs. However, Casey told him that if the results were very clear that the weightws were wrong, the engines wouldn’t get out of qualifying before wieght went on. I say at this point, we should take SKUSA weights +20 and see what happens after the first PMT in Jax. That is before our first race and if the wieghts are off, SKUSA will correct them.
Better yet, lets see if we can get 40+ TaG guys at hte first race and then start a masters class.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.