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I just read a post by Doug Welch on Ekarting in which he states there are plans for a CSC race in the parking lot at the GrandPrix of Denver next year. Who made these plans? It has not been discussed with myself or any of the other track owners that started this series. I think it is totally irresponsible to make a public announcement like that on a national forum. Doug, I will point out that you are only one sponsor of the series and not the president, owner, director, dictator, stockholder, etc? You are not the one to decide what races are CSC races and make a public announcement for the series. You have also stated that you want to make the street race in Colo. Springs a CSC race. There are more issues to be discussed before any decision is made as to adding any race to the series. For instance: is the new track at Centennial going to be added and how many races will Jim have. Are we going to have a race on short narrow tracks like the one at the Grand Prix? Are we having a CSC race on a Friday? There is someone considering buying CRE and may want to have CSC races, how many races will he have? I know that the series should not have too many races. Having more races in the series will affect all of tracks club races in a negative way. I will not go down to one race so that we can add all these races to the series and I doubt that JB or Stacey will either, we started this series between us and we will decide together how it will proceed. We must also listen to the input from the racers, which we have not had on this subject yet. Doug, if you have a suggestion about what races will be CSC next year I am OK with that. People get the wrong impression that you are somehow the owner of the series because your sponsor name “Shockwave” is in the title. I have talked with JB about this and we may make changes as to how the word “shockwave” is used so that there is no confusion. Do not go and make executive decisions and public announcements for myself, JB and Stacey!
It is interesting that you left Byron out as he is taking a bigger finacial risk on the state series than any of the track owners and his race is the cap stone of the series and it is his race that has recieved the most attention nationaly. While I know you believe this is a track owners series, it is in effect a racers series. It is the racers in this state who have made this series sucessful and it is the racer with whom we should be most concerned.
What the state series has shown is that through cooporation between owners and race promotors, everybody can profit. Track owners have a profitable date for a race, racers have a big event at which they can race. If the series gets too large (too many dates), no doubt it will hurt the club programs and that is a very real concern and from a track owners prespective, it must be considered. However, racers like varied venues and if we have more varied venues for them in which to play, the better for the racers. And since this is a racers series, their needs must play a larger role in determining where we race and how many races we have.
You are quite correct, I do not “own” the state series and I never have said I did. When some one came to me about the series, I have always referred them to the track owners that are handling that individual event for it is the race promotor who is in charge of that event. And I would argue, neither do you. You have two dates in the series. You do not control nor do you “own” the other 5 events. As you know full well, I have never tried to influence the operation or out come of any race at your track nor have I attemped that at any of the other tracks. I have been asked procedual questions by track owners but I have always made it very clear that I am only giving an opinion and that the final decision is theirs and that I will suppport their decision.
As karting grows in our state, there become more opprotunities for karters. The folks in the Springs what to organize a street race. There is talk of a full blown kart race with the Denver GP next year. If there is a change in ownership at CRE or a change in management attitute towards the state series, why shouldn’t each of these events be considered for inclusion in the series? The racers would love it and would respond very favorably. It would benefit the series, it would benefit the racers and it would benefit the track owners for as the profile of the series expanded, so too would be the number of racers. Everybody wins.
One of the problems with the series is how things are handled at the different venues. From tech, to race direction, to the grouping of classes, and a host of other issues, the differences of how these things are handled has and is causing problems. Maybe its time for the series to have an owner for it sure dosen’t have one now.
I for one agree that the series needs to get it’s act together. There are different rules at each of the tracks. I think a standardized format and set of rules are needed. Almost feel like we are running at “KING GEORGES'” track C.R.E.. Although the rules don’t change weekly like they do at his track, the racers and racers parents need a firm set of rules which each track owner will enforce. As to the CSC I for one would like to see as many tracks involved as possible to include temp circuits. If a track owner dosen’t want to see variety, let me know and I for one won’t help support your track with my money.
thank you,
Brian Mooreblink, lighten up!!
Doug has promoted this series as much as anyone… For free and for the advancement of the sport. Track owners have a REASON to promote this series, financial gain. No problem, I am a capitalist too, but that is the motivation, plain and simple. I know that Doug has a business interest in this series also, (increased business for Shockwave) but if this series fails, I doubt that Doug will feel much financial strain from it.
Karters are going to be the ulltimate judge of what works, let’s not forget that.
Maybe if you have a problem with something that Doug does, you could pick up the phone rather then screaming on a forum for the world to see.
Just my opinion.
@blink wrote:
We must also listen to the input from the racers, which we have not had on this subject yet.
Of course I’m not a racer, but I do get to talk with a few. From what I’ve heard and what I can guess………..
There were plenty of pople who would have gone to race at CRE this year, if there had been one.
I think it’s safe to say that people would show up, in droves, for as many races as Jim cares to host at The Track.
I’d bet money that if there was a race held on a proper-length track in conjunction with the DGP, you’d have to fight off the entries with a stick. You’d probably get more entries, especially out-of-state, than Steamboat. Even if it was on a Friday.
Somebody should take a poll at Bandimere on Sunday.
Who cares for the national exposure. This is a Colorado series, not a national series. I think we need to support the local tracks and not take races away from them to support someone that wants to race in the streets of CS. Have the race just don’t make it a points race, aka Rock Island, then we can choose to go or not. Street/temp races bend too many parts/bodies. If you get too many races, it ends up being a participation award going to who showed up for the most races, and not a championship. Right now we have seven races, maybe add CRE if things change, or the Track, thats all we need.
My $.02
BillIt’s always difficult to keep a great series going with all the excitement surrounding it. Look at the Pro Moto tour. First its the thing to do, now its a hard thing to do. I’m a firm believer of less is more.
As of now, I don’t know if there is even enough room (paddock) for a points race during the Grand Prix.
My goal is to introduce karting to the public and get new people involved and buying karts and using them, raising money for a good cause and having fun.
The Grand Prix is turning into a really neat thing, however, it is what it is.
$.02 more into the pot.
Jim :cheers:The CSC has turned out to be a wonderful alternative for those who enjoy large events at various tracks without the expense and time required to attend ProMoto, IKF Nationals, and Stars events. The CSC does not equal those in some ways, but it is a great alternative.
I think the CSC is best viewed as a series that one can seriously prepare for in order to win a true state championship. With that in mind, it should not get too big. The local series are there for people to race often without intense preparation, and hone their racing skills. The CSC is a monthly event ( 7 in 6 months) that is ideal for those who want to seriously prepare and compete at a variety of venues. The seven events we have now seem about right. Even adding CRE, which I would love, means it becomes a nine race series (assuming it gets two and we keep the existing). If we figure the season from April through Oct, that is still 9 races in only 7 months. I would not want to see more than 8 races in 7 months to decide the State Champions. It requires an immense amount of time to properly prepare for the current 7 races at 4 venues.
However, if the racers and the track owners/promoters want to have CSC type events at the Springs on the street, GJ on the street, at the DGP etc., perhaps we make those non-points CSC races. Then those who just want to focus on the Championship are not strained for time and money, and those who want to be a part of these neat Karting events can go race them under CSC classes and rules.
Then what do we do about The Track? Adding this venue and CRE would make the CSC 11 races and we are back to a club type schedule! My first thought in this case is to make only one CSC event at each permanent track be a points event. Then the Champions are selected from a 5 race group with no drops. Or, add a couple of street events and keep the single drop we have now. I am sympathetic to the existing CSC track owners, who got the CSC where it is now, and who likely do not want only one of their two events to be for points. Do we limit the CSC to the tracks that we have now? Do we add the other two CO tracks and make all be one points event each, or do we let the CSC balloon into a club type schedule reducing its stature as a Championship series and perhaps hurting the existing club series? My vote is for either of the first two options. As Jim said, ‘Less is more’.
Rod Whetstone
Brad – Weren’t you the one that was bitching about race weekends not being profitable? Don’t you make more money off of rentals or has your business model changed now that the CSC has become a real success? Lighten up on Doug because he truly is one of the leaders when it comes to making the CSC truly happen. Doug is a very good businessman that understands the simple concept of ‘build it and they will come’. I can tell you as last year’s TAG champion that I felt slighted that I didn’t get to race in the Springs against guys like Dane and a few others that are fast (even though I still would have won :dance: ). By adding additional tracks and possibly adding 1-4 more events you really aren’t straining the colorado racers. Who is going to PMT events? Who is going to Stars events? Who is racing at national events? Not many.
Here’s another point – the more races, the more money that goes into the pot and the more money the winner gets! If you have an incentive to win, people will continue to try and win. No offense Doug, but get rid of the bowling jackets and give more $. I love the trophey, the number plates and the cash….
The two CSC races make money but I have had to add supermoto to make the club races breakeven. If there are too many CSC races many will quit the club races. I do not have a problem with adding races but with the possiblity of adding 6 or more just does not work in my opinion. There has to be support for the real race tracks to survive. Two good races a year is not going to pay the bills. I used to run races in parking lots before I was able to build the track and everyone could not wait until there was a real track. I find it ironic that people actually consider a street or parking lot race something they would prefer to a real track. I guess when all of the tracks are gone because racers would rather race on some bastard course than the real thing they will learn the lesson the hard way. With all of the choices there are now to race only the strongest or richest will survive. We have to face reality, racers in this sport average 3 years and they are gone doing something else. The number of racers we have now is not much different than in 2000, only new faces. Just ask George how he likes eating macaroni and cheese 7 days a week.
Ladies and Gentlemen:
I for one will say this: Racing on “temporary courses” is entertaining for the crowds since there seem to be more spectators. But to say I like racing over HUGE bumps (main straight and back straight up in Steamboat) is pure folly. It sucks in my opinion. And unless we have SKUSA barriers are we going to have the same issues we had at Steamboat last year with plastic bags coming off the bales and wrap around tires or worse? Ask Josh Fellows or others who got wrapped up if they like the temporary course shortcomings. Give me a track like IMI, GJ or (jury is still out) Bandimere and that is racing pure and simple. Why do you think CART and F1 do poorly at temporary circuits? Because they are garbage. If we want to have a street race that is fine to promote the sport. But these type races (like what Jim is orgainizing next week) are and should be EXHIBITIONS.
I for one concurr with Brad on this issue. To have a series involving many temporary courses just isn’t my idea of racing.
Just my $.02 to add to the beer kitty.
The CSC is for the racers and to improve the quality of kart racing in Colorado. Let the racers decide what venues are run as part of the CSC. If one track puts on crappy races then let the racers replace that venue with another. That way the best run programs will be part of the series. A CSC race is a big deal; it means money to the promoters and quality racing fro the participants. Make the promoters have to earn it!
Sorry, I’ll go back to my cave now
Having come from the SCCA I can tell you that to many choices(races) can be a problem. Right now the CSC has 7 races over 6 months with one drop if what I have read is true.
The Track is coming on line at some point. Im sure they would like at least one event but lets say they get 2.
CRE, Im not exactly sure what is going on between track owners but from what I have picked up on I doubt CRE will ever be on board…to bad fun track to drive.
So, with the Track on board you have 9 races over 6 months drop one your best 8 count. Nine race days over 6 months in my opinion is not to many races. Like I stated before I jumped from the SCCA regional level. Guys, we had 17 race days plus an event run with the IRL at PPIR
last year in 7 calender months but only 6 months time that’s 18 race days.
That is to many.As far as temporary circuts go. Race cars have suspension to absorb bumps karts don’t. I wouldn’t want to be forced to run a temp circut for points. IMHO Steamboat is popular because of the town not the track. Let temp circuts be what they are..a great way to expose(sp) the public to our sport.
When we show up at a road course we know what to expect, when we show up at a temp circut what we see is what we get. It’s a gas to run in front of a crowd. But if the track has some unforseen big nasty in it I would’nt want to be forced to run it for points and risk bending parts. But I could always go out and run hard except for the one bad spot for the fans. That’s a nice choice to have.
As far os the tounge lashing Doug received IMO it probably shopuld have been done in private not on a public forum.
Looking forward to getting out and meeting you all at some point!!
Little Bill
If I would have gone on Ekartingnews and on my own without talking to anyone who is involved with this series, announced that I was going to add one more CSC to my track next year what do you think the reaction would be from JB, Stacey, and everyone else who races in this state even Doug.
Heres what i want for the CSC next year
1 race at each venue:
1 at imi, 1 at bandimere, 1 at CRE, 1 at GJMS, 1 in the streets at colorado springs, 1 at steamboat, 1 at “the track”thats still only 7 races like it is this year but at a variety of tracks
i know the track owners probably wont like that because they lose a big race but this is a racers series right?
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