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I guess that’s great Angie for someone to get a handle on this class but we have not even had the chance to try one out! There are not any of these motors here on the west slope like I have been told many times that there are. This class needs some desperate help!!!
I can’t even begin to explain how fustrated we are. I have talked to many people about this and they all want to know our opinon on the Honda motor and I can’t give one because I guess the it’s the people on the other side of the hill that matter most!
We used to run state races and now we are happy to just run club races with really great people on the western slope!
Angie,
I can only speak for myself. I have the wait and see attitude as to if my son is even going to participate in Colorado karting. I love running the Stars events. No guesswork involved. We do plan to run the Greely event though at very minimum. I would personally hate to see the comer go to box stock sealed since the motors out of the factory are so inconsistent. If you the “CSC” decides to go box stock count my son out unless its going to be a supplied motor and pea picked. I guess I could buy a mini-max to run in state. I would love to commit to all nine races, but no rules in black and white= no racing.
Brian Moore,
Father of Brandon #67 comer 80 and #77 novice shifterYou will be allowed to run the Comer motor at all the Grand Junction events including the 2 CSC events, you will not recieve any CSC points however..
Was Brad at all serious about a Honda GX200 program for the Junior 1’s? If so, it might make a nice substitute for the K80 class. We’d sign up for that, for sure.
I think the Yardleys, Moores, and other K80 owners (like from CRE) need to be heard from, as their vote counts more than mine, but sealed K80’s sound like a headache especially statewide.
What’s good for the baby goose should be good for the gosling, right?
Also, is/was the plan to allow the K80s to run with the MiniMaxes and Animals? That would determine the minimum number required.
Sharon,
I am sorry that the motors haven’t made it over there yet. Guess I have to load them up and come visit you! No, really, thought that someone from the wonderful, beautiful, western slope was over here last week and was going to pick 2 up. Guess that didn’t happen so Brad is boxing them to send as we speak (right Brad?)Angie,
Thanks for the update, I guess we are the only kid kart looking and state races from the western slope and it has been so confusing to say the least!
Sharon, I really do understand the frustration, and I am so sorry. I hope that you get to try one before the CSC race. Takoda will be fine with the Honda, even if he doesn’t drive it beforehand. It really drives just like the Comer. If it means anything, we will be there the Thursday before the CSC race, and Ken will help you, or anyone else for that matter, get the motor on the kart. A fifteen minute job.
See you in May,
AngieRegarding the Junior 1 program, we’ve limited ourselves to CRE because its too expensive to have both a box stock sealed K80 and a blueprinted one. If CRE and CSC could agree on the parameters of a box-stock motor, Peter would probably race CSC as well. Yet I also see the problems with a box stock program, and especially for those (like Brian) who want to run Stars as well. In that regard, Brad’s idea of a Honda loaner program for Junior 1s would be a great solution.
We may not have a dog in this, but I thought we learned that Animals, Comers and mini-Maxes don’t mix (remember the opening race at GJMS last year? 😯 ). There’s just too much difference in speed to have them safely on the track at the same time.
Joe,
I can understand the issue of those who may already have built motors, but the expense, reliability and upkeep of the built motors seems to be a part of our problem. Some want to come in with a stock motor, and they can’t compete. The Box Stock Sealed motor program would meaan that anyone with a built motor would have to buy a stocker sealed, unless they have one of George’s.You are right about the K80s and Animals / Mini Maxes not working together on the track. That is why we need to get a good group of them going strong. So, if you think that Peter would run it if we went that way, we would already be up to three, possibly four. That is better than only one! I think at least 6 to commit to the serieis would make it ok for a class, of course, the more the better.
Hello all, we recently moved here from VA. My 9 yr. old son ran a Cadet K80 last year, after 2 years of kid kart. While visiting last summer we went to watch a CSC race at IMI, there was a grid of 16 K80’s, and we were very excited about coming to CO to race with all those Cadets. We have a blueprinted K80 engine and an very used stock K80 that has probably been rebuilt a few times to practice with. I am one that has been waiting for the rules to sign-up with CSC. Weight is different here, pipe no pipe, air box, tire compound, ect…?? We went to a club race at IMI and we were suprised to see only one other K80. Where are all the K80’s? Are they at CRE? Will my “stock” engine meet the regs for CRE? Now I read on this forum let’s get rid of K80 and use a Honda?? I feel that to race beyond CO the K80 is the way to go, because of the Stars program, which is a nationally recognised program. I think here in CO you have way to many options for the 8 to 12 year old group. K80, Animal, Mini-Max, 80 shifter (stock), and now a Honda GX200, how many juniors are there?? Why so many offerings?? Do you want 4 karts in each class?? Or 20 karts in one?? Introducing another class, I think, would be wrong. I would like to stay with the nationally recognized formula (K80) so we can practise and learn with the engine we would race, set up the handling with the weight we would run, if we decided to travel. Why is the weight 225 instead of 235? But I realize I’m the new guy and have not been part of what has gotten CSC to this point. Just my ramblings.
P.S. I would like to know where the other K80’s are in the state are running. Feel free to PM me at irwin_eng[at]hotmail.com Thanks. David
David and Nial,
Welcome to CO! I remember seeing you out at IMI for the club race, sorry I didn?t get a chance to introduce myself.Last year with the CSC, the largest field of K80s was 10, then it dwindled to 7, then 5. I don?t know why. If any of those who dropped out would share their reasons, it could help. The Honda is not a realistic solution for the Junior 1, we need the Comer 80 class to remain as a stepping stone for the Kid Karts. The Animal, Mini Max, Shifter thing IS a problem, too. It makes sense to have the TAG or shifter options, and some, like my son, run both.
There are no K80 rules out yet, because we are trying to decide whether to go Box Stock sealed or more what we had last year that jives with Stars. I want to know who the K80 people are, and which way they will go.
I see the interest in running consistent to Stars, yet the CSC is a statewide series, a step below (hate to put it that way) those National events. In the interest of cost, and growing the class to what it should be, the Box Stock thing needs to be looked at.
If you go with stock k80 I can list some of the potential problems. I know these well since we used to race that at CRE. A motor that has a lot of hours on it is faster than a brand new one. What is to prevent a crankcase seal to be modified after motor sealed? What would prevent someone from blueprinting a carb and just leaving the silly choke installed. Or if you have a lot of extra money to buy 5, 10, or 20 motors to find the fastest? I personally think that stock motor classes don’t save money they cost money if you want to be up front. The only way I can see the CSC running a stock motor is if the GENEROUS CSC will provide the comer motors and do the pea pick. If we do the stock comer 80 will we be allowed to twist on the jets? Just potential problems to think about. Much easier to run by the same rules as the rest of the country. By the way STARS is #225 in the cadet class this year not the #235 like last year.
“Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it”
I remember two years ago when a certain racer flipped his kart, incurred serious injuries and then sold his kart. He took that mid pack kart (No offense Chaz) and literally SMOKED the TaG Senior class at Bandimere.
So once again I ask, new motor old motor, how much of a performance advantage is this really in times? Drivers are for corners, engines are for straighaways.
Just curious…
And the driver for those of you who forget was Donal Loughrey. That was the fastest I’d ever seen Chaz’s kart run. Same kart, same engine…
Brian has a point. Initially, I was a fan of the box-stock motor as a way to keep costs down, especially for newcomers to the sport (who aren’t yet addicted and willing to deal with the costs of racing). But from what I’ve heard, the problem is that there’s really no way to define “box stock.” As I understand it, an engine builder can put an engine right to specs–without any visible milling or machining–and there would be no way to detect that visually, though it might make for a significant power difference (probably depending on how “good” the motor was to start with.) So I’m not sure if you can remove the “fat wallet” advantage, and you may even make things worse by deluding the honest racers into thinking it’s an even playing field.
It’s also debatable if it really saves money. For us, if we want to race CSC we’d need to get a second motor. I know that for a fact, because we tried racing Stars with our box stock motor and Pat was a good half lap behind at his home track. Then we got a blueprinted K80, and he got the outside pole position at Nationals. Same driver, same chassis, and even without home track advantage. I’m sure Ben Whetstone, Brian Moore, James Michael-Sullivan and others could tell similar stories. So it’s only cheaper for racers who choose to limit themselves to one track. Of course, that might be a sizable group if it applied to all the CSC tracks.
That’s why I like Brad’s (perhaps off-hand) suggestion about a Honda motor program for Junior 1s. Those of us who also want to race at CRE can use our sealed motors there, and switch for CSC events. Those who want to race Stars can do likewise with their blueprinted motors. And newbies who aren’t sure what they want to do can avoid sticker shock. That might be a very important point given what appears to be a dwindling number of entry Junior drivers. On the other hand, it once again puts Colorado outside the mainstream, and makes it more difficult for those who want to race nationally (primarily, Stars). No perfect solutions, but I personally think this might be a good one.
P.S. As an aside, in order to race Stars I purchased a Woltjer blueprinted K80 sight unseen off eBay for $900, including a kart and lots of spare parts. I had it freshened up by Woltjer for about the same amount, we raced it at Stars, and then I sold it for $900. To Sage Karam, who then used it to win a couple national championships and recently had an ad here on Colorado Karter, wanting $4000 😯 for it!!! Now that my younger son is showing more interest in racing, I’m really kicking myself for selling it!!! But, frankly, $4K for a K80 is just crazy–but some desperate dad will pay it. That’s where this “the sky’s the limit” mentality can take us.
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