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I read through the SKUSA rule book and noticed that all shifters will be required to run air boxes this year. I know that we are roughly following the SKUSA rules for the CSC. What I want to know is are we going to be required to run air boxes at all of the CSC races or just at Grand Junction?
Mike:
I hope they stick with the SKUSA rule book and run the air boxes. The more we stray from a written rule book the more complicated (problems) things are going to get. By keeping with an established rule book we will make tech much more efficient for the officials.I know Angie is trying to get the rules out to us. So when she does, please DON’T SHOOT THE MESSENGER. She donates enough of her time, without having to spend more time fielding a bunch of complaints.
Mike what class are you running next year?
Bill
I think that if we allow the motos to run without airboxes, it will help to level the playing field between us and the ICCs, which are designed from the get-go to run them.
We ran them in Grand Junction last year only because of the track’s particularly tenuous situation with the local community. Hell, at Bandimere, we race between a drag strip and a freeway — noise is HARDLY an issue there and at IMI we race out in the middle of nowhere. If the airboxes are mandated for the CSC, will the track owners also require them for “club” races? Airboxes are a no-brain tech item…..ICCs=yes, Moto=optional. You can’t get much simpler than that.
Interesting……does this also mean we are going to “toe the line” on all other SKUSA rules such as tires and run only Bridgestones? I sure hope not.
We already voted on the CSC rules, let’s not change them now!
Wayne:
My point wasn’t about air boxes. My point was, we voted on SKUSA rules at the meeting with the exception of tires. If we had 3 or 4 exceptions to voted on rules for each class, the tech guys and the people putting the rules together are going to have a problem and more loop holes for the competitors to find. We voted on SKUSA rules for the pro class. The CSC rule book should read “SKUSA S1, open tire,” very simple. I say S1 because, it has the same weight and motor packages we are running.I understand you would like no airbox. Other people would like something else. We have bought things that were legal last year but are fish weights now. But as I recall everyone was invited to the meeting and we voted SKUSA rules. Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t think so.
If we want to have any tech at all we had better keep them in mind.
If we have this type of rehashing what went on at the meeting for all classes, they won’t get the rules out before the season starts. They should be able to print what Brad had on the screen for all of us to see and call it a rule book.
Bill
Once again. Air boxes do not change the performance of the moto motor. We have dyno sheets on our 80 with a K&N, a three hole box and a four hole box. If the inside air filter is clean, you will see no difference in HP. The only difference we found was on the two hole box mandated by STARS. It was 1.5 HP less with a filter, and no difference straight. Since all of the 80 with STARS ran the same exact box, there was no harm.
This is where all of karting is going, the sooner we get there the better. Stick with the SKUSA rules throughout all CSC races for the shifters. I agree with Bill R.Curt:
With all due respect, you aren’t running a 125, nor are you running against a spec motor package that is specifically designed to run an airbox. An airbox in the 80 class is the same as a restrictor plate in NASCAR — an equalizer. The dyno doesn’t mean a thing, because all of the competitors are essentially running the same setup. Sure, I have a “vested” interest in this decision. I would like to see the moto engines remain in the mix for a few more years. No offense, but Bill, maybe you might agree with me if you were still running a Honda?Whatever the rules are, we will abide by them, lets just get them posted soon please!
The air box is required at GrandJunction, option at the other tracks. I would not recommend an air box at IMI because of the dust and the damage it does to the engine. We did bring this up at the meeting.
Thank you Brad for bringing up the dust/dirt issue (I was about to mention that as well). I know for a fact that several of the competitors in Grand Junction felt it necessary to run the airbox minus the filter because of performance issues. The foam internal air filter is pure junk anyway, and unlike other karters, I won’t run without a filter…..(can’t afford the cost of a free hone job every time we race). I was pretty sure that this issue was discussed at the meeting and it was decided to handle it the same as we did last year.
First of all you can get a K & N external filter and adaptor plate for both the 2 hole and 3 hole airbox this filter has no performance issues.
If anyone plans on running SKUSA with a moto engine then you will need to do R & D to compensate for the airbox, if CSC dosen’t require an airbox then you have just uped the cost of racing again by requiring people to be competitive both with and without the airbox.
By the way the problem with the airbox on the 125 moto is not an airflow problem as most people assume, it’s a resonant cavity issue and with some work this can be overcome, in fact I would be willing to bet that by the end of the year someone will come up with a solution that will make more power with the airbox that without! (take a quick look at the 2/ GP bike racing scene and closer to home the snowmobile racing scene)
To stand any chance of advancing the sport we need to be proactive about noise issues. Just run the same box as SKUSA and let physics take it’s course!!!
the ICC’s are designed to run w/o fileters all together, just make sure you clean the box everytime you go out
I also vote to leave it optional for both ICC and Moto Karts. As far as I know, my motor does not like to inhale dust with fuel and two-stroke oil. Also, on the PMT, most tracks are not as “dusty” as our colorado tracks are.
Ok, thank you Brad for answering my question. I do not remember the topic being brought up at the meeting, but there was a lot discussed at the meeting. So who knows where I can get filters for our airboxes, specific part numbers/manufacturers and prices? I am all for the noise issue, but am worried about performance issues with the airbox anddo not want to sandblast my cylinder and piston everytime I go out. Bill, I am planning on running in the Pro class this year.
There is a reply in the airbox thread on Efarting news that suggests the SKUSA rules indicate that only the CIK aproved 2 x 29mm hole box is allowed on ICC engines whereas the moto engines are allowed to run a 3 x 29mm hole box.. I will re read the SKUSA rules to try and clarify this, anybody else catch this???
Let’s keep in mind that the CSC series came about due to the demand of our local racers desire to race and have fun , not to cater to SKUSA nor any other sanctioning group !
I think I can speak for most of the racers and perhaps Brad in saying that every time SKUSA waggs their tails we are not just going to accept their self-serving ways !
If it is good for our loyal , local racers and they collectively want it , we will go along !
J.B.No personal stance here
butCSC is a STATE series, not a National series, an intermix between “Joe Karter” and “Joe Nationals”. It is a series where the best and the newest can run together, and race, not spend $$$$$$ mula on their motor and chassis. This is not designed for one principal purpose, but more on the lines as a mixing ground for a true state series where anyone, and anything can run and have fun doing that.
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