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Hello all. New to karting and this forum. My 12yr old son will be running the Junior Rotax series for the first time in 2015.
Getting into karting was kind of a difficult task. There’s not a lot of good information for a beginner on the web about it. It took me a lot of time and clicking around to find what I was needing to know before making the decision to let my son purchase a kart and race(Greg at Unser provided me with more info than I found on the web). But I’m still not 100% sure if I need to become a member of a national karting club before I can enter a local race…? And what is the maximum front and rear kart width allowed in Junior? Exactly how many ounces of oil per gallon to get a 50:1 ratio using rotax 2cycle oil?
Getting into kart racing is no cheap endeavor! And if people cant find answers to their questions quickly and easily, then most would probably walk away after seeing the price of a used kart.
IMO: It would have been very helpful to have a one stop site to find all the details. The different kart clubs, classes and ages, motors, full rules for each class, memberships/dues/entry fee info. Maybe all the local clubs and tracks could get together and pay someone to build a web page detailing everything that needs to be done to start karting? Has someone ever contacted the local media stations to see if they wanted to do a 60sec sports recap of the racing for the 10’clock news? Why don’t the tracks do more to promote organized racing? I’ve never seen a brochure or signage at any of the tracks letting people know when there was going to be a organized race.
Annual discussion reboot…
Since you are asking for opinions, I’ll give you mine. It hasn’t changed. In 2015, we will support the SKUSA RMPKC and Racing the Rockies series as much as we can. These two series with the addition of the grass roots classes and cross over between the two is all we need. Some may ask why we didn’t run SKUSA this year. Simple, Memorial Day and Labor Day. It didn’t work for our family. 2013 was fantastic when we ran Miller, IMI, TTAC, and GJ. Multiple tracks… good stuff. On the western side of the US, if you have any interest in national level racing, these are the two organizations to follow at a regional level.
I think SKUSA and TTAC got it “right” this year by offering their standard series and then adding the additional groups:
Racing the Rockies – Rotax Regional Series with LO206, Shifters, JR1 206
SKUSA RMPKC – SKUSA Regional Series with LO206, Rotax, JR1 206Well run series, great people, almost everyone could come and play. In my opinion we don’t need any more rules, sanctioning bodies, engines, etc. other than these. Honda, Rotax, Leopard/X30, Briggs. Most people probably have one of these and thus could race anywhere. Track owners could probably add one more “open” class to each weekend for those who want to race but have a different engine or run an unsealed Rotax, etc.
I think we all saw what a great weekend could look like when the CJKC/LO206 racers raced the same day with the Rotax racers. Lots of people, lots of action. If we had those weekends more frequently and at all of the tracks in Colorado with either SKUSA or Rotax, I think just about everyone would be happy.
Cost is always an issue – always will be. BUT, we ran most of our regional races with Max with a four year old kart with a bent axle nicknamed “old and busted” and a four year old Rotax engine that will require a clutch and top end at year end for total maintenance. Not a problem.
Everyone wants more people and we all know that it takes awareness to get it started. It would take a concerted effort to work with the rental kart places, maybe local tracks, etc. to advertise and get the word out. Not sure who would lead the charge… In my mind, that is the biggest unknown out there. Who will take the lead on promotion?
Once you become aware, Brett, you nailed it. It’s hard to get started kart racing in Colorado. There’s no shortage of great, helpful people but the trick is being able to find them. However, if awareness created a greater volume of people who were like Brett and wanted to get started, I don’t think this would be a problem for very long…
Dave
PS: Brett, pick up a “Ratio-Rite” from Greg Welch… it will solve all your fuel oil questions.
:usa: i would be willing to discuss these items with all the track owners. I have a plan ready to go at this time. Since we know the track owners read this site please contact me. It is a win win situation. I look forward to hearing form you.
Craig Mansfield
KART RACING FOR HEROES
rockhead50m@netscape,net
303 242 2929Craig,
We are willing to do whatever it takes to get Colorado Karting back on the map. We have some of the best drivers in the country here in both Rotax and Shifters. At one time we were the strongest region in the country and everyone was envious of what the CSC had done.We had turnouts of 150+ on a regular basis with great sponsors and support from a a lot of people.
By what little response i see maybe what is left of the Colorado karting community just does not want a Statewide series.
We have supported every track, promoter series we could including going to TTAC and SBR with our big rig and trailer and every driver we could drag along. Unfortunately we don’t get that in return.
We have a whole new crop of kids coming up that are going to be fantastic at the National level and as a father the best thing possible for Sabre’ was to be able to compete with National caliber racers like Ben, Christian Bird, Christian Schureman, Cory, Austin, Greg and many others on a regular basis. That is what will make everyone better not sitting at home making every excuse possible as to why you can’t or won’t compete.
If you are not wanting to go compete at a National event at least you can get an opportunity to see how you stack up against a National Champion as i believe Colorado has about 8 current or former National Champions still competing at all the Major events.
Colorado has an incredible group of people in the karting community, many that are our closest friends. A State series tailored to “what” the karter wants can and will work however the tracks need to know what that is. Or you can just keep racing on your own little island the choice is yours.
I am surrounded by highly competitive athletes in my daily life and most compete at high levels in their sports. They show lots of interest in karting but to them club racing is not enough but traveling out of state for nationals is to much. They would be more inclined to spend the money on karting if there was a middle ground. The middle ground is a organized state series that travels all over the state. They would be coming from a moto racing, mountain biking, and even ski racing and are used to well organized, professionally run events, that also offer a variety in venues.
How many others are in Anthony Giannone shoes, they have a interest in getting back in a kart but not for club racing, they want a series that makes use of the great tracks in this state.
SKUSA had this last year. This year they made rule changes that for Colorado killed the TAG class, especially TAG masters. The changes they made and how they made them pushed the TAG drivers away. Going to a single engine package in TAG for 2016 has also made TAG drivers less interested in SKUSA. Without this change SKUSA might have had a better chance this year.
Stacey makes some very good points. One of the key points being, if we the karters do not express what we want, the track owners and anyone willing to put on a state series have no idea what to do or offer.
Hello Everyone.
As we all take the annual step to rehabilitating the “olden days”. A few things must be considered:
To those who don’t race in any of the series and are posting, your input it is greatly appreciated, but bench racing has never gotten anybody anywhere.
I have been racing Karts for over 13 years in Colorado and all over the country and come to learn many values and characteristics of our sport. Karting costs money. The reason we don’t have 150+ racers anymore is because of that….the economy went south…and people moved on. There’s no magic voodoo on why it failed. We aren’t gonna find some magic answer to getting more entries either.
The Track has raised it’s entries by nothing purely more that providing a venue for the sport to grow, by doing what? Not changing anything. Consistent classes, series and rules. New drivers know what to race, what they can and the rules they need to follow. Grand ideas of having a “stadewide series” and having 6,876 classes, with rules from IKF, SKUSA, Rotax, and the East India Trading company, are destined for failure.
SKUSA, failed this year because of the lack of entries, and lack of support from Utah. I don’t mean to be harsh, but numbers don’t lie.
I believe that if something is going good, don’t change it. The Track at Centennial, has the best entries in the state, and are Top five in the country for registered Rotax racers….and yes I said the country. (look it up)
I am not counting out other tracks, especially Stacey Cook and his support. Lets be serious, Stacey runs a high dollar karting import company, with a full blown national race team. To compete at high levels of national racing, it is un-naturally hard to support local racing. But they still do.
Sorry, there never was or will be a “middle ground” in karting. You practice at your local series or club race. And then go get your ass kicked at a national and learn more than ever. Those who won’t or can’t do national level racing, is why local series exist. (Obvious)
Continue to support the current series. Keep the same classes, to provide a stepping stone for the national racers, and keep strong support for local drivers. Build up average entries. and then maybe IF we have enough racers, a state series will be a consideration. Spreading it thin now with hundreds of classes, and rules, and other phenomenon, will result in failure.
Ben
I like the reference to the East India Trading Company Ben…
Again, to me the “state series” everyone is talking about is the SKUSA Rocky Mountain Pro Kart Challenge. They run all the SKUSA classes, Rotax, and LO206. In 2013 they really got it right by going to Miller, Grand Junction, IMI, and TTAC. If they did the same thing in 2015 (plus add SBR, I like that place…), it would be the series anyone asking for a “state” series could want. We just have to commit to support it and hope the track owners are willing to participate.
TTAC already has a great Rotax series going plus you can run shifters and LO206 there. This could also be the “state” series, though I don’t think they want to be. Would I personally like to see some form of a link to Utah (they have a fair number of very talented Rotax and other racers) and Grand Junction? Sure. But even if they don’t do anything different in 2015, it’s still a great place to race, well run, and worth the travel. We could have an “unofficial” state series just by attending Racing the Rockies and Grand Junctions club races that run Rotax. Add in the Utah Karting Championship and you’ve got an unofficial regional series…
I’ll step up and say that we’ll try to hit every track next year if there is a SKUSA or Rotax series going to them. I agree you have to support those that support you.
Again, the bottom line for me is that everything we want is already there. What won’t likely work is creating another competing series, running 15 classes in a day to accommodate every possible combination of kart/engine, and hoping people magically appear. We just need to promote what is already available, get more people involved (LO206, maybe a rental kart race group, etc.), and support it.
Do this and I’ll be we could have 100 existing racers plus maybe 20 more “new” racers per weekend with a breakdown similar to:
Cadets (Micro, Mini, JR1) – 20
Juniors (TAG JR, Rotax JR) – 10
Senior/Masters (TAG & Rotax) – 20
LO206 – 30
Shifter Experts – 10
Shifter Novice/Masters – 10
Open (Rentals, etc.) – 20There is no discussion of spreading it thin. Trying to get a series together that the racers from all the tracks can come together and race. There is nothing that says when a particular track holds state series race it cannot also double as a club race. It also is a great way for the clubs to get a little extra money and improve their club racing. Right now no drivers from Centennial and other front range tracks come over to Junction and none of the drivers from Junction come to Centennial or the other tracks. We are discussing ways to get all the drivers in the state to race at the same place a few times a year. Some will say just come to the club races. In the end they are still just club races and you are left wondering did everyone bring their true A game and the results show where you really stand or did people race hard but not give everything they had.
I am not trying to rehabilitate the olden days, I was not in karting to know about them. I am just trying to see if there is a way to get all the karters in CO to come together and race in the same place. Right now there is a division among Colorado karting. Everyone races at their local track and very few travel out of state to race. In all my experience being involved in several different sports I have never seen a group of people so happy to race the same place over and over. A huge part of the enjoyment I got from racing mountain bikes all over the US and Canada was the traveling and seeing new places. We have several great tracks in CO lets work together and get a traveling circus going where we all get together at different places throughout the summer and enjoy doing what we love…racing.
Do we need new rules no. The two strong clubs(TTaC and GJMS) in CO run identical rules for the most part. The only reason to bring up rules is to see if the karters not showing up to race is because of something with the rules. A good portion of the people that did not show up to the SKUSA events where Tag drivers with Rotax engines that were suddenly outlawed and saw no reason to invest in new engines. Say what you want about Rotax not being as popular in other parts of the country, but it is what karters use in CO. Out of the 8-10 Tag entries at the GJMS club races, only one was not a Rotax. (Edit for David’s post) The format of the RMPKC is also one that I notice hurt numbers. Going from a club race where it can easily be a race weekend for under $200 it is very difficult to suddenly jump to spending a minimum of $700. Make them one race weekends and that number drastically drops. For someone that has only ever done club racing making the step up to even just a state level race is intimidating. Along with that intimidation do we need to also make the financial side of the weekend intimidating?? Sure you can argue the value of a 2 race weekend, but value means nothing if you do not have the money in the first place. We are in a point where people have less money to spend on things like karting. So a $350 dollar weekend vs $700 can be the big factor in someone making the race or not. A more state level series is meant to be a stepping stone both for those wanting experience to race at a national level and for those wanting to spread there wings and explore outside of their local track.
As I briefly mentioned in another post The quick and dirty way to do a state series. Look at the Colorado karting clubs schedules next spring. Pick two dates from each club series and say it is part of the state series. The track and club do absolutely nothing different race weekend. Now hopefully the tracks get along and do not try and schedule things over top of each other. Then just take the results from these selected races and apply points to them. At the end of the season total the points and you have your state series results. Absolutely no involvement was needed from the tracks. No additional fees were charged. Just karters getting together and seeing how they stack up against all the drivers in the state driving on different tracks. As tracks see a increase in entries(more income$$) on these select races they will want to get involved and do more to be involved to see if numbers could increase even more. I know a simple thing like this would be enough to make the drive to other tracks more then worthwhile.
Sadly, there’s no magic bullet for this topic. Every year we seem to have the same discussion in this same vein, end every year it seems to end with the same questions. I wonder if everyone is remembering – and trying to recreate – the good ‘ol days of the CSC. Things were different back then, and it was before the Global Financial Crisis, so it seems people had a bit more money to throw at stuff like karting. Also, the stars and planets had aligned, everyone was happy, woke up on the good side of bed, hit every green light on the way to work, etc…maybe that’s why the CSC worked.
@David Fedler wrote:
Again, to me the “state series” everyone is talking about is the SKUSA Rocky Mountain Pro Kart Challenge. They run all the SKUSA classes, Rotax, and LO206. In 2013 they really got it right by going to Miller, Grand Junction, IMI, and TTAC. If they did the same thing in 2015 (plus add SBR, I like that place…), it would be the series anyone asking for a “state” series could want. We just have to commit to support it and hope the track owners are willing to participate.
I’d tend to agree with David. SKUSA is great, IMO, and they have everything needed to make a ‘state’ series work, including a national rules structure and sanctioning body. If you want to have a clubs -> regional ->national type structure, then you should have the support of a national sanctioning body when moving out of club competition…in my opinion.
But for everything that SKUSA does right, I haven’t ran the series in over a year. Why? For me, its the double race weekends. I definitely get the logic of ‘more bang for your buck’, but when you double the tire and fuel costs and add that to the already high costs of travel, it was the deal breaker for me. I am very much a racer on a budget, as I suspect many of us are. I know that regional racing should be neither easy, or cheap, but when you can do 3 or 4 races locally for the price of one ‘travel’ race it makes the decision pretty easy. For me at least.
While we’re on that subject, there are an awful lot of opportunities to race in this state – which is a great problem to have. I’m not saying there are too many races, but there might be too many races. Just briefly looking through the calendar, the off weekends are few and far between. When you factor in that different people commit to different series (and thus are reluctant to skip a race), and have other commitments outside karting – be that other hobbies, family, or just some well deserved down time – that could explain the downturn in traveling. I know we’re all racers, and some of us would live at the track if it was possible, but for a lot of us there’s a point where we just can’t.
@Ben Schermerhorn wrote:
Sorry, there never was or will be a “middle ground” in karting. You practice at your local series or club race. And then go get your ass kicked at a national and learn more than ever. Those who won’t or can’t do national level racing, is why local series exist. (Obvious)
Ben brings up a good point here. The situation we have here with no definite regional series is not unique to CO, and I suspect it’s how most other states are too. We have a great variety of tracks and series to choose from, and we always have. We should be happy about that.
For me, at the end of the day it always (has, and will) comes down to time and money in this sport. I’ve been doing the LO206 thing this year, and its probably the most fun I’ve had in racing. I started out in 2006, and i’ve done Rotax and Shifters, but the 206 hits all the right areas for me in terms of affordability, ease of use, reliability, and most importantly raceability. Seems to be a hit across the board too, so hopefully we’ll see the numbers grow as a result.
Anyways, I don’t have the answers, but I just wanted to throw my perspective into it.
I agree the amount of races in CO almost seems to be the problem. It is the same as having to many classes. It spreads the karters out and gives everyone a mediocre turnout.
We should look at not adding anything to the calender but taking what races we have and making a state series out of those. Just because other places do not have a regional or state series does not mean we cannot have one. We have the tracks, we have the karters, now we just need the schedule. Between Centennial’s schedule, Grand Junctions’s schedule, Colorado Junior karting Club’s schedule, and the Pikes Peak Karting Club schedule we should be able to get a state series that visits every track without the addition of races to the calender. This will also give each track and club the chance of benefiting from hosting their rounds of the series. I would much rather see the clubs/tracks hosting the events and seeing some money go back to them, then have a national sanctioning body come in with staff and everything and receive the benefits. Give every club/track two rounds of the state series. This could help boost the clubs and give karters across the state better events and venues then we already have.
I cannot think of any reason a track/club would say no to having two of their current events count as a state series event and award points to a state championship.
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