2015

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  • #44304
    stacey cook
    Participant

    As 2014 will soon come to an end what suggestions and idea’s does everyone have for 2015?

    Colorado karting can again be strong but what is it going to take?

    #67087
    Jordan Iglesias
    Participant

    Unity!!!

    #67088
    Eddy Wyatt
    Participant

    Some thoughts:

    In a perfect world, a state wide series like the old CSC.. However, when I was with PPKRC and we were trying to bring everyone together for that purpose, many told me/us we can’t go back to the future…. 😆

    Jordan’s got it correct, Unity! Going forward the future is with new people, with new ideas and a more effective way to support and promote the sport to the masses. Bottomline, entry level karting remains the key to keeping karting alive and well.

    2015: Looks like the Rotax racing will remain strong with local, regional and national support. Additionally, entry level karting with the LO206 should continue to show significant interest and increase in numbers.

    Just for me, I had more fun karting the LO206 this year than in many.

    Respectfully,
    Eddy
    :co

    #67089
    Cory Ross
    Participant

    A series that visits every track once or twice in the season. If we visited every track twice we could have a 8-10 race series. With the weather and the various locations of tracks we could easily have a season that goes from April to November.

    The big thing I have noticed on everyone’s mind is affordability. This is something the RMPKC had going against it. It was a mandatory $700 weekend in just entry fees, tires and fuel. A single race weekend format would greatly reduce costs. With open optional practice on Saturday and race on Sunday. Lets have tire rules but not make it a requirement that they are brand new. If a driver wants to run an older set of tires let them. They would still be required to run the set they qualified on for the entire race day.

    We also need to look at things to attract racers. Offer a season pass. Purchase before or on the first race weekend. It would be a one time fee for the full series of race entry fees(not fuel and tires) at a reduced price. Cuts down on registration since they will be already registered for the season at every race. Makes for one less fee when the race weekend arrives, and promotes people committing to the whole series. Say we have a 8 race series with a $60 entry fee at each race, that is $480. Give drivers the option to pay a one time price of $400 at the start of the season. It is $10 off a race or as the drivers see it almost one and a half free race entries if the commit to the whole season.

    We could also look at some kind of bring a friend discount. If you bring a new racer or one out of retirement lets get a discounted rate for that event.

    Along with having drivers championships lets have a track/club championship. Each driver at the start of the season declares a track/club they are racing for. Then each race say the top three finishers for each track/club score points. The track/club who scores the most points wins.

    #67090
    Curt Kistler
    Participant

    CO has five operational tracks open for business. West, South, North and Central. Get the track owners/operators to commit to a State series, one set of rules, a solid schedule, and have them all run each event with their own staff. Pretty simple concept.

    If they don’t come together, or agree to something this simple, it will fail. The other option, find five new track owners that want to lay down millions :money and start over. Bottom line is, the track owners have taken all the risk, they built their facilities and run them for your enjoyment. It’s difficult for them to all be on the same page for many different reasons. They all make sense when you discuss this with all of them seperately, however, getting them all into the room at once, with one goal in mind, is next to impossible.

    I thought time heals all wounds.

    #67091
    Cory Ross
    Participant

    What set of rules? What kind of schedule? We as racers need to help the track owners know what it is that will bring the racers in. This year showed the SKUSA RMPKC was not the right formula. But why? Why did drivers not go? I did not go because I race a Rotax and I knew there was no competition at the races to justify the costs.

    As drivers what do we want in a series? What will bring us to the track? What will get us to drive more then a hour from our home to race? If we do not answer these questions how can we expect the track owners to come up with the answers? There is nothing that says we as drivers cannot come up with a series and approach the 5 tracks in Colorado and see if they want to participate or not. This is not entirely up to the tracks. If you get a large enough group that says they will come race, most smart track owners will want to be part of it.

    #67092
    Curt Kistler
    Participant

    @Cory Ross wrote:

    What set of rules? What kind of schedule? We as racers need to help the track owners know what it is that will bring the racers in. This year showed the SKUSA RMPKC was not the right formula. But why? Why did drivers not go? I did not go because I race a Rotax and I knew there was no competition at the races to justify the costs.

    As drivers what do we want in a series? What will bring us to the track? What will get us to drive more then a hour from our home to race? If we do not answer these questions how can we expect the track owners to come up with the answers? There is nothing that says we as drivers cannot come up with a series and approach the 5 tracks in Colorado and see if they want to participate or not. This is not entirely up to the tracks. If you get a large enough group that says they will come race, most smart track owners will want to be part of it.

    Go for it. Let me know how that works out.

    #67093
    Cory Ross
    Participant

    All five tracks are not needed. If we can get just two one east and one west it would be a start. It is obvious the basic race format alone is not going to attract racers. Something needs to be added to the weekend. What are things the drivers want at a race weekend? Why is everyone so silent on this? This thread has been viewed 171times and only 6 replies?

    Do people not want to race outside their neighborhood? I for one want to travel and race at every track in the state, but it needs to be financially reasonable to do it. The competition at the race is what dictates if a race is worth it or not. The more and the higher the level of drivers the more I am willing to pay for the racing.

    #67094
    richardhensley
    Participant

    Cory,

    I have to call you out on more and high level of competition means you are willing to travel. I don’t recall seeing you racing the at “Racing the Rockies” series over in Denver. We would enjoy having you join us.

    There is a relatively large group of Rotax Senior, Masters, and Junior racers at The Track. We have Scott Falcone, a member of the Rotax Worlds team racing with us regularly. That seems like a high level of competition. The lowest numbers we have had is 13, the highest is 21. The masters class is the largest.

    I have not seen you at these races. I believe the race meets the criteria of good competition and large fields.
    We race all the classes together create a field of between 13 and 21 drivers, so there is always somebody to race.

    My point is that it is something different than just competition. There needs to be something else to get folks to travel. I’m not sure what it is, but I gave up and just travel big time to CoTA and Grands this year. It was just easier and the competition is amazing.

    We have one more points race, and a cool down race. Why don’t you join us? You might find the group of folks fun to race. We race standard Rotax rules. You have the option of new or used tires, just have to race all day on what you qualify.

    Richard

    #67095
    Stan Bryniarski
    Participant

    Corry,
    You hit on a number of good points.
    I think we had this conversation last year with regards to tires. The RMPKC DOES allow racers to use tires from event to event as long as they were originally purchased from the series. But lets face it, if the racer next to you in the pits bolts on new tires, what are you going to do. We can never stop the “Keeping up with the Jones” from racing.
    I originally thought the idea of a double race weekend would be the most cost effective and still do. However, I see there is some interest in a single race weekend. My formula not only took into account the cost of racing, but hotels, gas per mile, days off from work/ family. I think that if you really put a calculator to an entire race season, you will find that I save you money, time and marriages with my formula.
    Think not, thats fine, lets put it on the white board (right here) and fix it. That is what forums are for, right?
    As far as the Rotax classes, with the exception of Utah, where has anybody found 10 other Rotax racers to run against in the same class in Colorado? RMPKC will run them with the TaGs classes.
    LO 206 going to save karting in Colorado, maybe for a year or two. I already see threads that are taking the class down the same road that all the other spec classes have been. Don’t get me wrong, Briggs has done their best at keeping the class affordable but it is just a matter of time before someone is going to have to TECH IT. Wonder why nobody is doing tech?
    Before I offered the class in the RMPKC, I priced the tools to tech the motor. You want to know why there is no tech, check the cost of the tech tools. :hypno BTW take it from an old Indiana 4-cycle dad, no tech on the clutch, the heck with making the motor go fast, pay attention to your weight and the stall/ engage RPM of the clutch if you want to win!!! (Especially for you racers who are running up and down hill!) Why do you think they blueprint clutches in the 4-cycle clubs. 😀
    I will continue to monitor this thread and support all ideas.
    Heck if you think a meeting can make sense out of this, post a date. I will cash in my miles and make the trip.

    Respectfully,
    Stan bryniarski
    RMPKC Series Director

    #67096
    Stan Bryniarski
    Participant

    Do we think CASH prizes instead of awards is the ticket?

    #67097
    Cory Ross
    Participant

    I have not attended any Racing the Rockies races. The first races of the season I needed the money so I could attend the Summer Shootout. I wanted to go to the last couple but the transmission in my truck went out. This has meant driving to Denver to race is not going to happen. The next race I will be spending that weekend putting the new transmission in my truck so I can avoid putting the kart in my Jeep wrangler to make the GJMS race the following weekend. The same question needs asked of the drivers in the Racing the Rockies, Why have they not traveled to GJMS?

    If a driver wants to be competitive in their local club points series, that will burn up a good part of their race budget. Then travel to a couple larger races and you have even less budget available to travel to other clubs. You could almost say one of the problems in CO is to many races. So we have races competing for drivers making for smaller entry numbers. Be honest everyone how many races can you attend a year? For me it is 8-10 with the vast majority being club races running used tires.

    In Regard to RMPKC this year, SKUSA hurt themselves this year with the Tag engine rule change. I race a Rotax because it makes the most sense for my budget. Last year in the RMPKC there was only one or two that raced the Rotax class. There was no way I was going to spend $700 on just entry, tires, and fuel to run around a track on Mojos while everyone else was on MGs. There was also no incentive to run the RMPKC Rotax class. Punches could be easily attained at club races. Nationals have no Rotax class. So the money saved not buying a SKUSA license was better off spent on practice days or another race. If it were not for this rule change I would have been at the RMPKC races this summer. To be 100% honest the way SKUSA has been changing rules and their new position as importer it has me seriously questioning if I want to make the move to a Stock Honda.

    The two race format is not always the best. Think of the guys who cannot get Friday off work. Give them a day of practice Saturday before racing. Say you only have a budget for one day of racing. You are not going to sit around and watch all day one day so you can race the other. You will just do something else that weekend. When you factor in a Friday in the race weekend you also have to factor in the money lost from the day off work. That also would mean you have a job that is flexible enough to let you take repeated Fridays off all summer long. Or you could just show up Saturday and feel rushed and behind all day wondering if you wasted money.

    Is Lo206 the ticket? maybe? Come 2016 in all the non-gearbox classes all you will have is spec racing, with Rotax, Lo206, and SKUSA X30. It is a double edged sword, run spec and tech the crap out of it, or have to listen to the guys that did not win complain how the rules were unfair to their specific engine choice. For now in CO it looks like Rotax is the choice with LO206 right behind.

    #67098
    Leo Ahearn
    Participant

    I don’t really have any answers as I’m pretty new to karting, but I would like to share some observations on the 206 class as we bring 2014 RTR to a conclusion.

    We had between 19 and 27 206 karts across 3 classes at TTAC this year. It is an 8 race series, one drop, and I think two fun races bookending the season. Throw in a night race for July 4th weekend and that pretty well describes the year.

    In that 19-27 racers, we had a minority of drivers that showed up for 2 days every race, test and tune day 1/race day 2.

    We saw a pretty good percentage that started the season then quit showing up mid season. We had some join mid to late season. New karters I am talking about here, the focus of the class as I understand it.

    We saw new 206 drivers that came from the performance street car enthusiast crowd fade mid season.

    Of the new 206 crowd, I came across none of them willing to pack up and head to Grand Junction for 2 days, even after telling them what a great facility it is and how you could leave early saturday AM and be on the track by 10:30 no problem for a good test and tune day. Wondering if one of the local teams with truck and trailer could better market to this crowd on getting karts and gear over there, though cost becomes a differentiator with this approach under the assumption you’d be paying for pit space. Very reasonable by karting standards, no doubt, and lots of benefit to this, however for the back of the pickup/Harbor Freight $99 trailer crowd, incrementally much more $$ than they spend for a wonderous weekend at their local TTAC.

    Having 10 races at the same track was quite attractive for someone that wanted to race “a lot”, though probably not able to commit to 7 races for the championship points chase. A lot could be described as 5-6 races spread out between April and October. I think this contributed greatly to the overall high per race attendance numbers, having 10 races available over 7 months.

    In the past as a new karter, for me it was extremely difficult to figure out what races when would be at IMI and under what rules. For 2014, outside of the TTAC and the PPJKC, we really did not see any adherence to the bigger WKA/IKF rules (purposely ignoring SKUSA right now – no offense- you do a great job of laying out rules, schedules, etc.) Speaking as a karting outsider here, not insider where I know who to talk to about what and when at IMI and Action.

    If one reads ekartingnews, the larger national sanctioning bodies’ initials are all over the place. Clearly out here we are not on the WKA/IKF bandwagon, setting up series under these banners at multiple venues. Not sure the value of rallying around these rule sets/getting events scheduled at our tracks with these bodies. Probably would not have an impact on the 206 crowd.

    Will the 206 racing grow into a multi-circuit series, having teens and twenties of people making the CO circuit? I honestly doubt it. Some small percentage maybe, with encouragement and support. 206 as a local series with lots of participation? You betcha. Jim has proven this in spades this year.

    Personally I plan to play with the World Formula motor on Duros and MG reds next. I’d like to see how much more of a Drivers Class the briggs can be with more power – make the kart need that much more finesse in more corners with the increased power on the Duros. Preliminary queries suggest there may not be room for such an animal on the front range as an additional class, but I’d like to give it a try. Eddy and I are also talking about some winter driving in Phoenix with the WF motor.

    Thanks everyone for your efforts this year, and here’s to karting growing in 2015 in Colorado!! :clap:

    #67099
    Cory Ross
    Participant

    Do the karters in Colorado want a state series?

    If yes what would you like to see?
    How many races on a weekend?
    Rules, SKUSA? Rotax Challenge? TAG USA? WKA? IKF? a mix of all for our state series?
    Format, how many heats? qualifying etc
    How many events, any drops allowed?
    What else would you like to have during the weekend?

    Do we do things the quick and easy way? Change nothing except pick a couple of races from each club and apply state points to them? Then what about the tracks without club races?

    Come on everyone stop being silent on this. If things are going to change we need to discuss them. Even if you do not think things should change from how they are speak up. Are their a few of us discussing a problem that does not exist? I for one want a strong state series that helps prepare us to race out of state. Racing the same track over and over does not do this. You need to travel and get used to things like the logistics of traveling, quickly tuning your setup at a new track, and even how your body adapts to food and sleep changes being somewhere different. With a series like this we still need to remember the guys that just want to do this for fun and not travel and make things to intimidating or expensive.

    #67100
    Kirk Deason
    Participant

    @Cory Ross wrote:

    Do the karters in Colorado want a state series?

    If yes what would you like to see?
    How many races on a weekend?
    Rules, SKUSA? Rotax Challenge? TAG USA? WKA? IKF? a mix of all for our state series?
    Format, how many heats? qualifying etc
    How many events, any drops allowed?
    What else would you like to have during the weekend?

    Do we do things the quick and easy way? Change nothing except pick a couple of races from each club and apply state points to them? Then what about the tracks without club races?

    Come on everyone stop being silent on this. If things are going to change we need to discuss them. Even if you do not think things should change from how they are speak up. Are their a few of us discussing a problem that does not exist? I for one want a strong state series that helps prepare us to race out of state. Racing the same track over and over does not do this. You need to travel and get used to things like the logistics of traveling, quickly tuning your setup at a new track, and even how your body adapts to food and sleep changes being somewhere different. With a series like this we still need to remember the guys that just want to do this for fun and not travel and make things to intimidating or expensive.

    Cory, keep it up. Keep rattling your cage. People are disillusioned. There are lots of us who remember the great CO State series that used to be better than everyone else’s regional series. Then some people who had a lot of influence where and when certain races were run started fighting. Some skirts and blouses got ruffled and the series was destroyed. There needs to be some wound healing but, like Kistler said, time hasn’t quite healed all the wounds.

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