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I have had a few calls from parents today about the lack of tech at the CSC race yesterday, mainly from the Comer class. I was not at the race to see for myself but from what I have been told there were a few karts that were much faster than others, lapping some karts more than once and it was obvious to them that there was some work done to their engines and clutch. I would like to remind all parents with kids in this class that these engines are to remain stock with no modifications to the porting, compression, carb, clutch, etc… It is disapointing to me that some parents feel they need to cheat in a class for beginners. It is more disapointing for the young racers who have to race in a class where this type of thing is going on. I want to warn those who are cheating that I will be doing tech at the CSC races at IMI and you will be disqualified if I find anything that has been modified. You cannot use a DQ for your dropped race.
Blink , I’ll help you at your CSC races if you will help us by teching as many classes as you can .
I am not qualified to post-tech , but I can help in other areas !
Our volunteer tech inspector didn’t show for the race
J.B.Brad, give us some examples at how people are cheating. My nephew and son finished 1st and 3rd so I am curious if either one of those are suspect.
I can only tell you what I have seen in the past: Machined clutch shoes to let the clutch come in higher, porting, bored carb, larger carb, offset crankpin for more compression/stroke, piston cut on bottom for more top end. I will tell you that last year there were two karts that ran away in that class and their father told me I could not tear down his engines and I DQed him and that was OK with him and he has not been back since. I believe his two sons raced in the class yesterday if that tells you anything. I sure hope you feel good about winning that way. This type of thing only makes the other parents want to cheat to keep up, don’t even think about it. Stacey I would have your engine checked if you do not know where it came from.
brad, Bo and Tristans karts were brand new when we got them, so I know they are stock other than the Muffler drilled and the sprocket changed. Bo’s is one of our rental karts and has been run to death but he is a great little driver. Both of those karts can be bought today if anyone wants them for $1,000 each. Cheating is not good for anyone, the kids are the victims and I would not want my son disqualified for something like that. We will be at your CSC race and Look foward to having you take a look at them. I gurantee you will see the same results.
As I mentioned in the other CSC thread, I think that we’ve got a good thing going here, but for it to continue, we must enforce the rules and tech requirements that we have in place. Shame on anyone who is willing to cheat to win a plastic trophy, but the sad truth is that if we do not tech, human nature and competitiveness take over and the inevitable occur. 🙄
While I am not saying that cheating doesn’t go on, far less of it goes on than most people think. Some of the fastest kids, particularly in the kid kart just flat know how to drive them and the Dads know how to tune them. Those of us who have raced more than a few years know this.
Like all low hp karts, kid karts benifit greatly from a driver who is gentle at turn in and who never lifts, never uses the brakes. If the driver does, he/she will loss a bunch of time and what appears to be a fast motor is actually a fast driver.
A perfect example of that was the kid who drove Chaz’s kart in Tag senior. Was he cheating, hardly. But yet he was way faster than any one in the class. Why, simple, he knew how to drive and set up his kart. With kid karts, the differences is even more pronounced. Those little engines need a full lap or more to get fully spooled up. Some kids can never get them spooled up for they never build the necessary momentum.
Watch how the kid sits in the kart during a turn. If they are leaning in, they are forcing the inside rear tire down and thereby binding the kart and losing power and speed. The kid who is sitting straight up or leaning out in the turns, is keeping his /her kart free up on 3 wheels and is much faster.
Brad, just because a Dad doesn’t let you tech his karts doesn’t mean he’s cheating. They could want to get home and don’t feel like waiting. For many of us, its competiting that means something. Trophies are just not important to many of us. If it was late and I needed to get my kids home, I would tell you to go ahead and dq us. Why do you think I quit racing Briggs. Getting torn down every week got old and getting home at 10:00 or later because of tech just took all the fun out of it. Just for the record, we did get dq’ed in Briggs tech once. We had Tru-Arc snap rings for piston retainers instead of the stock items. After that, I said enough of this BS and we went shifters. Never looked back.
Great race yesterday!!
nobody caught the Nitros bottle I had strapped to the back of the seat! (just kidding)
the tech inspections were lacking and needed to be improved. like Wayne said, there was nobody checking/marking tires.Can the Race promoters post the names of the race director and tech director (or list them on the race flyer) prior to the event. That way we know who to go to when we have a question.
If you suspect someone of cheating then you need to file a protest, put up some money to have them inspected. IF they are found legal then you loose your money, if they are cheating then you get your money back and they get DQ’ed. Simple! that way not everyone has to be torn down.
But I do think we need to be checking fuel. One of the fuel makers has a product that has 8% oxygen! 😯
lets keep this thread going and get it sorted out
😆 Here’s an idea ! How about a claimer rule or engine exchange program. That could possibly stop all the $$$ thrown into non-conforming engines and let the competitor win with there driving skills! I’ve been doing this karting thing for 10 yrs in colorado and there is always someone who tries to overcome the competiton by trying to run outside of the rules!
Thus the parents who put alot of pride and money into their childs Kart and then sees they are not competitive, so someone is cheating ? Take into account that some of the kid kart drivers have 1 or 2 years of driving experience under their belts, and when the season ends your child will as well, so the best way to get to the front for your kid Kart racer is – SEAT TIME and Patience from you their parents, as think about it , put yourself in that seat @ 5years old – What Is going though Your Mind !!!! The Fear of the environment or how mad the dad is going to be if you don’t perform well ! I saw a Father Yell @ his kid on the grid-do you think that child wants to live his fathers dreams or is he wanting to do this because it’s Fun! LETS not take the Fun out for your child !Doug
Even though I did not take his engines apart I was able to look into the clutch from the outside and could tell it was modified. It can be real obvious when all the karts start from a dead stop and the ones that have been worked on take off like a jack rabbit and walk away from the others in a straight line. You can also listen to the engines when they go by and hear the difference in RPM. I just don’t want this class turning into a $1000 blueprint before you can be competitive. There are specs for everything but the rules say you cannot machine any part, including cutting the piston even if it is not to the spec. You have to run a flywheel key but there are some that have taken it out and set the timing ahead which I have been told was done yesterday by some frustrated parents. If it was up to me there would be a claiming rule for this class to keep people honest. All I can do it try to keep everyone from ruining this class which is already happening by the comments I have heard today. When a childs asks his dad why his kart is slower than the one in front there is motivation to cheat. I know there are kids who drive better than others and there are things to do to tune the engine better but there are those who try to race through their children and will do anything to win for their own egos.Dear Brad, did any of the complaining parents log a complaint with J.B? or ask J.B to post tech the suspect karts? Had they expressed their concerns to Stacey, he would have traded karts with them! The plane and simple facts are, some of those kids have been racing for along time and never lift off the gas, are very aggressive and only touch the brakes when bunched up in lap traffic, as was the case on sunday. You were not at the race, did not witness any of the action, but are willing to use the misleading information of several upset parents to stomp on the credibility of others. My advise to you, is to keep your fingers in your pocket, and don’t start pointing them until you have your facts and proof in order. My advise to other parents, is to spend more time with your children teaching them the fundimentals of racing and practice, practice, practice. The first and third place winners on Sunday have a track at there disposal and spend more time on it in one month, than most racers do in a year. Maybe, just maybe, that and that alone, had a little to do with their sucess.
I have talked with JB and both of us have received calls from a new dad to the sport that is offering to blueprint Comers for $500. How bout it Comer parents, is this what you want to get started? I have been dreading this day for some time when even the most basic class in Karting has to be turned into “who has the most money wins class”. I might as well just add another $500-1000 to the price of a new Comer kart and start telling new customers that their kids will not be competitive in this class without doing a blueprint. Then I should buy $1000’s of dollars of Comer parts and cheery-pick them and sell them to the highest bidder so that the parents with the most money can have them put in their engine and sell the rest of the inferior parts to the poor families. It reminds me of when I started karting when I was 14 at Valley kart and I bought a used Margay kart from them with a Mac. Back then your starting position was determined by your season points, not qualifying, so no matter what I was in the back since it was mid season and I would never be able to catch up. There were about 15 karts in my class and when the green flag dropped I was left in the haze of Klotz smoke with the throttle pegged. Time and time again I would be lapped by karts and on the straight you could tell there was a difference in power that was overwhelming. At the end of the day I asked around and found out there were three people who built engines. I also found out that if I did not have a needle-bearing block I would not have a chance. Of course I did not have a needle bearing block, I did not even know what a needle bearing was. I was to dumb to ask the right questions and Valley kart was more than happy to sell me a kart without telling me the real story about what it took to get a competitive setup. You had to be in one of the “clicks” with one of the three builders. Then you had to spend money on the cheery-picked parts, needle-bearing block and of course the labor from one of the three builders. This still would not get you the same engine that they ran. If you were a big spender and they liked you then it was possible to get one that would run with the rest of the class. My dad was not into karts so I was on my own; he never went to any races so it was my money that would have to be used to buy my wins. I remember the frustration I felt when there was nothing I could do but wait until I had made more money to get the right rod with the right length, the carb that was closest to the spec, the prized needle bearing block and all the other things that you had to have to even have a chance. Finally I did a job that gave me enough money that I just bought Mike Sandbergs personal Invader reed open kart. It was only then that I realized just what the difference was in performance between what I had raced for a few years and what he had. I have always had negative feelings about that experience that I will never get over it and blame that atmosphere for the stagnation of the sport back then. People would get into the sport for one year and quit because of the entire engine BS, “Clicks” and politics? that were involved. We would spend 3 or 4 hours tearing engines down at the end of each race. In the last couple of days with the calls I have received and the things that were said by these parents I am having a dejavu to the past when everyone hated everyone and there were fights and yelling and hurt feelings and the fun was not there for me or anyone else who got into karting in Colorado. Lets not repeat what was the “dark ages of karting in Colorado?.
And to Scott, please find something else to do if you want to come into this sport and turn it into what it used to be around here when I was a kid.
I am begining to think that for the kid kart class, we should stop handing out first place trophies and give every kid the same trophy. We would not track points so there would be no season championship to win. How about that? It is done this way in many parts of the conutry.
I am Beau Cook’s Mom. He came home from the race last weekend so very excited that he had won in the comer class. He practices every weekend and loves the sport. As a mother, I am glad that he has this opportunity to be involved in something that will hopefully keep his interest when he reaches an age where he will be faced with peer pressure and dark opportunity. He told me that eventually he will be giving up kart racing because he wants to be a world famous Nascar Racer. What a joy is it for me to see the excitement and hope in him for his future. If he for one minute felt that there was a question about his talent as a driver or the integrity of his parents and Uncle, not only would his self confidence be destroyed but I doubt he would ever want to compete again. His Dad doesn’t even have time to maintain his kart properly, let alone try and “modify” it. Anway, thank you to the staff at the track, I know its difficult to put on races, keep everyone happy and stay on schedule. Let’s all remember this is suppose to be fun for our kids – Yeah, it feels GREAT when your kid wins, and it feels even better knowing they deserve it due to their love of the sport and not by cheating.
Guys, this thing is getting way out of control. Lets stick to the facts. There has been absolutlely no evidence of anyone Cheating in any way and until there is we need to just remind people of the rules. I sure don’t mind people expressing their opninons and concerns on this forum, however everyone really needs to think about the damage this could cause if mentioned to these little kids, they are the innocent ones and all conversations need to be directed towards the parents only!!!! Again, this is suppose to be a STOCK class with no modifications of any kind and it should stay that way or as Brad has said it will destroy the class and the concept. The next CSC race is at our facility and I hope all the 50 comers show up and I suspect those 4 kids will run up front again at which time we can address any concerns that the parents have. This does put us in a strange position as 2 of the kids karts in questions are ours so anyone that would like to be present or help in anyway will be welcome. I suggest to the parents that think about dumping money into motor work should hold off until then so that they can see for themselves why they are getting beat.
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