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I agree with the sealed engine concept and keeping the cost down. The protest proceedure is a right that anyone of us racers have to use but the protester should front the cost if the engine is legit. Now if the engine is not stock, I think it should be a one year ban, period. You just have to make the penality outway the benifit by alot. As far as tearing a sealed engine apart, pointless!
Joe Marshall
Rotax #14Short, sweet and to the point:
Tag (or any engine for that matter) Engine can be inspected by the local shop (I have a huge amount of respect for Brad at IMI after watching him tear down Sam’s ICC and him questioning why Swedetech did something one way and if done XYZ way it would be better, oops got on a tangent!)
Sealed motors send to the appropriate AUTHORIZED service center
Doug, running YHB’s or something as soft would get you the 1-2 second improvement(?) on field but anyone STOOPID can check out that. 8)
Who has the mould for the YHB’s to look like C’s? 😀 Joking really joking (just like Dennis’s fuel additives!)
In the infamous words of Rodney King, “can’t we just all get along?”
Doug:
I’m really sorry that this kind of crap has to happen in our sport. I was under the impression that a CSC “tech inspection” of a rotax consisted of checking the seal and passport for validity…..period. Pass or fail, end of discussion. Of course, other factors come into play such as fuel — but they wouldn’t necessitate the tear down of a factory sealed motor. The Rotax was designed, I thought, to put an end to this kind of penny ante stuff.
Although we are, in Colorado, a thriving karting community for the time being, the fact is that our sport is suffering in general. Situations like this will do NOTHING to help our sport. We all need to take a deep breath, step back and realize that we’re doing this for fun, friendship and family –who cares about the friggin’ plastic trophies anyway? The chances that anyone in our series will ever end up in a Champ Car, F1, NASCAR or any major venue are one in a Bazillion. So let’s treat it like it is.
To whomever lodged the protest….You need to wake up. You got your butt kicked. Simple as that. Do your homework and maybe, just maybe you’ll do better next time.
I apologize for my rant, but I’m beginning to see “chicken doo doo” creep into our series, that remember, we started, in part, to avoid this very thing. 👿
Brad, J.B, and Stacey, Are the remaining CSC races going to require a tear down of a sealed Rotax motor at tech if the same CRY BABY lodges a protest? And if so, At who’s expence? Because if this :bs: continues into the last three CSC races, were are going to Lake Powell on those dates and drink like fish. Any of you Rotax drivers are welcome to join us, we have plenty of room. :cheers:
I agree with Doug, we need some clarity on this issue before the remaining CSC races are run. I have no argument again one person being able to protest another’s motor, but as we all can see we need a clear set of rules in which the process is fair to both involved parties. No more of this, I’ve got $50 that says your motor is hot and I could care less about the other 300+ that it will cost you to have it rebuilt to spec, crap. As Doug Welch said earlier I think there are slight differences in power from one Rotax to another but I think the differences are so minute I don’t see how it is possible for one to say that one motor has an advantage over the next. Point in case, my motor was last rebuilt in July of 2003 and since then has close to 30 hours on it. Take a look at the lap times from last weekend of Greg and myself, I think that shows well enough that the motor is only a minor part of the equation. If that is not enough proof look at the qualifying times from the last IMI CSC race. Someone correct me if I’m wrong here but if my memory serves, I had a time of 54.09X in qualifying. Yet I didn’t hear a thing about protests :idn: But, the word on the street is that my motor is next, so Doug I just may have to take you up on that offer of drinking like fish in the desert sun if this issue isn’t resolved in a timely manner.
I will be going to SSC to be offically certified on the Rotax and will be able to do teardowns for no charge except for parts, which will be less than the $50 put up to tear down an engine. It is not fair to the other racers with other engines not to be able to have tech done on the Rotax. This policy is only making the class divided and there will always be distrust. I do not trust the seal system because it involves people who have their own greedy motivations. It is real easy to cherry pick Rotax parts that would make one engine run better than the others but still pass the certification standards. I think the real problem is the weights for the Rotax are to low. If Greg are Dane can run a 54 with a Sonic, Lepoard, Biland etc.. at the weights those engines have to run then the weights are correct. Looking at the dyno charts I do not see why a Rotax gets up to a 30 lb break. I only see Rotax drivers responding to this thread am I am sure you are all very happy with the weight break. It is important to make everyone in this class satisfied with the rules and the weights or it will just turn into a Rotax class.
Brad,
Don’t go down that road again. The weights are okay for the rest of the country. Are we that special here in CO that we need to make weight changes based on what a few individuals ” think the real problem is”? It seems to me that the inaccuracies of the scales on any particular kart and driver make weight changes on their own, but that’s another topic. I think I remember Donel at the first CSC race at Bandimere kick everyones butt. I do not believe I heard a peep out of the other drivers especially those driving Rotaxs.
Just a question for you, why on earth are you becoming a certified rotax person if you don’t like the concept and don’t trust the guys working on them? Aren’t you going to be one of those guys???
Tom Dennin
I certantly would not do it so that I can tear down engines for free. I have been offered this earlier in the year from SSC and have not had the time to go. I have many customers which would like our shop to stock more engine parts and do the service, seals, etc… We have been working on Rotax for a long time for those who don’t care about the seal and we might as well get our certification so that we can work on them all. We also service, sell and stock parts for the Leopard and Biland. The concept of the seal does not bother me if all the engines in the class have them. I have nothing against the Rotax engine and have been selling them for years.
To All:
I LOVE my rotax since it is pretty idiot proof and I haven’t seen one blow up (yet) Once you learn how it works and what needs special attention it is a strong and competitive engine.
I however am seriously looking into getting a Sonik next year due to my weight. Again I can only eat so much tuna and chicken breasts and even then i am coming off the scales at 397! I therefore am giving up 12 pounds and 42 in the masters and senior class respectively. Getting a Sonik would be the equalizer, to me. Of course the fact that I have tested about half as much as last year wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that I feel that I am slower this year 8)
If Brad says that people can circumnavigate the seal then shame on them. If he is going to the trouble and expense of getting certified to tear down a zit engine then hat’s off to him. I think he has all karters best interest at heart
I think all rotaxians and other racers need to realize that the Dane Buckleys, Greg Welchs; AJ Nouds, Jack Warringtons and Sam Walls of Colorado aren’t cheating but have spent many an hour testing and tuning to get where they are, period. Again we all have to step up in our endeavours if we want to be number 1. Those plates come at a sacrifice and cost, are we willing to do what it takes?
If I were in Doug Welch’s position, (even though what I think he did was right under the circumstances) it can’t be a comfortable feeling working in the karting industry and have the whispers coming. Again tearing it down is fine IF you get the engine back to me the way I gave it to you, sealed and certified with the passport intact.
Brad, enjoy the trip to SSC. We rotaxians look forward to you coming back with a diploma to rid this talk once and for all. THEN WE CAN ALL GO BACK TO PRACTICE AND RACING!
Who’s the importer for Biland’s?
For the RECORD,
Dane’s engine was purchased new from IMI.
Motor History
Sept 2002-Purchased from IMI with a DFM Kart
Oct 2002-Stuck Motor, Given to Brad for a rebuild, was sent to KSD by Brad (Head, piston, rings replaced $700)
July 2003-Crank seals replaced by Acceleration Karting, new piston ringI watch this kid spend countless hours tuning his chassis. learning everything he can about handling. The biggest gain for him was attending Nationals last year and being pushed to the limit to tune his kart and compete with the best of the best. And he qualified 22nd of the top 64 Rotax drivers in the country. The top 37 were all in a 1 second window. I think that speaks for itself that he’s got some skills there, it’s not all about motors. It takes a smooth driver and a perfect kart to get the best times on the track.
Just wanted to get these facts out in the open, in case anyone is questioning Dane or his equipment.
Duff
P.S. I would welcome a well-stocked service center on the front range. I send way too much money out of state currently.
Brad, I am glad to see you become one of the service centers that you do not trust, what will make you any better or more trustworthy than anyone else. This whole thing is a big JOKE !!! There is no way you can gain a one or two second advantage by the methods you mention. The sealed motor program was to keep people from performing illegal work such as porting, polishing, ceramic bearings, crank or head work, and th list goes on and on. NO and I repeat, NO certified service center is going to seal a cheater motor, they simply have to much to lose. We had two days practice prior to our first race at your track, we started our first practice after noon with 58.5 second laps, we changed axles 2 times, jetting 6 times, went through 9 different gear changes, 3 different hub lengths, and countless chassis changes, air pressure, seat location, caster and camber changes. On race day we were at 54.8 dropping almost 4 seconds in 2 days at 375 lbs, and my tunning skills are limited. Why is it so damn hard for people to except that someone like Doug Welch or Dane Buckley with all that tunning experence and driving skill couldn’t go alot faster. I have some BAD NEWS for the complainers!!! these guys are going to find some more and get alot faster, want to know why? because they know how, and are willing to do what ever it takes, and spend as much time as it takes to get there. They kicked our butt on our track, broke my sons track record and you dont hear anyone crying foul from our camp!!! We just need to find the speed that we know is there. As for the complainers, they need to spend more time at the track, learn more from the Doug Welch’s and Dane Buckely’s and get a trophy the old fashion way, WIN it!!! And no one has answered my question, Is this :bs: goinig to flow into the remaining CSC races, and if so who is paying the bill?
Anyone want to see the insides of a Welch motor? Look at the index page of the new SKI mag. I assume that was one of the reasons they chose to go kick some TAG butt. Those guys push real hard, all the time, and you best bring your “A” game to run with them.
If I would have seen that picture prior to the CS race Greg would have never jumped into Barry’s shop kart. Looks like something out of a war zone. 😯
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