So Long Second Creek :(

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    Curt Kistler

    Just a thought to share.

    Matt and I met up with the Waterman’s at Second Creek on Sunday, the final, final, FINAL car race ever to be held at this storied track. There were 6 groups of cars with some pretty competitive racing all day long. We will miss watching races out there and hope that Centrix can get their new track operating soon.

    One of the best kart races we have ever raced in Colorado was held at Second Creek. The speeds were scarry fast, but it was also very exciting to watch. So long Second Creek, and hopefully the next selection of real estate to build a track on will last 20+ years.

    One more thought….
    Just logged onto to and found this event to be canceled. Anyone know why???

    Doug Welch

    I know they (Pikes Peak) were having insurance issues. WKA didn’t want to cover the event without some changes made to the track layout. Maybe that did it in.

    It would be nice to have a long track available for kart racing. Second Creek was just too dangerious for karts with the barriers and concrete walls. We have done a couple of long tracks back east and they can be a blast. Very close racing and very high speeds. A quality track design can be safe for karts.


    Doug wrote:

    Second Creek was just too dangerious for karts with the barriers and concrete walls.
    But not as bad as Sandia 😯
    I too, have many memories of SC. My steering wheel breaking going into the turn off the back straight, rabbits and prairie dogs exploding as they get hit by the karts on the back straight and the Jr 80s wrecking at the finish line.
    Bottom line at this venue, noone was seriously hurt and ultimately it was VERY FAST and FUN.
    Hope to have another just like it.


    Doug Welch

    I do remember a serious injury at SC. There was a guy from Grand Junction (?) who hit the concrete wall up in the boot. If I remember right, he had very serous internal injuries that almost got him. Does anyone know how that all turned out?

    I do remember that 80 junior wreck. It was after the checker. Greg and Adrian came over the line first. The second group that was a few seconds behind them forgot the race was over after the line and someone ran over the top of another and all hell broke lose. No one was hurt but it sure scared the crap out of us parents.

    Sandia is another place that is a bit dangerious. It is the only place that we had an ambulance ride. However, that time it wan’t the fault of the track or the drivers, that was just a racing accident. That goofy chicane on the front straight sure took its toll on front stub axles.

    Second Creek had a long history here in Colorado. I remember going there 20 years ago to watch SCCA national events. But I also remember going to CDR in Castle Rock for SCCA events too so I guess that shows my age! I even remember going to Pueblo to watch SCCA events and seeing a guy in a 914-6 just smoke the field, not knowing at the time it was our own Grady Clay behind the wheel. I went to an event at the old Stapleton track where a friend took his shifter and they allowed him to race. They put him out with serveral Porsches and after he pounded them in the dirt, they told him not to come back!

    But like all most all race tracks, it seems their time just runs out. I hope we do get another long track that is smooth enough for karts to run on. We raced at another Alan Wilson designed track, Gingerman in Michigan and it is a great track. Very smooth, wide open, fast yet technical. If you were unfortunate to go off there, all that happened was that you had to spend time cleaning the kart.


    The decision to cancel the Thunder at Pikes Peak event was based primarily on insurance. My intention was to sanction the event thru WKA for two reasons – first for a Rule Book and second for the insurance coverage. I submitted the packet to WKA for a sanction to host a “sprint race”. However, they felt that the speeds would be too high and therefore would only licence the event as a “road racing” facility. With that sanction WKA insisted on limiting who could and could not race. While other insurace was available for me it was cost prohibitive.
    Unfortunately track scheduleing for 2005 made it impossible for me to get some karters together to re-configure a temporary circuit for the front and back straights. The other issue was that a major tire sponsor was being courted for the event. They however only wanted to provide left over 2005 tires and did not want to use the event to test or introduce their 2006 line of product.
    I have not ruled out the possibility of doing something in 2006.
    Phil Layton

    Curt Kistler

    Thanks for the response Phil.

    I think I can safely speak for many of the karters in this community that we were all looking forward to your event. We will keep our fingers crossed that you are successful in 2006. If you need any help, support or anything else, please do not hesitate to contact us.

    I can see where having your feet and head exposed at the speed PPIR will produce would be a concern. Isn’t there enough infield at PPIR to set up a kart track without the high bank use? Or is it the banked surface that is the draw to this event? Just wandering here.

    Thanks Again, and good luck in your persuit of this exciting opportunity.


    The banking was not the problem, it was the 1500 foot front straight.
    Thanks for the encouragement. I will continue to pursue the possibilities. Regards.
    Phil Layton

    Doug Welch

    That’s kind of funny coming from WKA. They insure Jacksonville and it has a high speed banked turn (you shift into 5th gear as you exit it) that leads on to an 1100′ straight. Top speed is well over 90 mph. The straight ends in a 90 deg left hander and the fence is not 50 feet off the track. Ask Marc E., he went through the fence and almost ended up on 103rd Street a year ago. We were all concerned but the PA annoucement was kind of funny. I’ll let Marc tell the story.

    I can’t imagine that your track would be any more dangerious than Jacksonville. That is the most dangerious track I’ve ever seen and WKA holds Manufacturers Cup races there! Three years ago, Bobby Wilson almost ended up on the roof of the building they have right on the track. If his kart hadn’t been flying bottom first, Bobby would be dead.



    my father races in the SCCA. he holds a lap record that will never be broken at CDR in a renault encour GT-5/4 . its sad to see SCR go, considering i grew up at that track i went to every one of his races there since i was born SCR is like a home away from home to me


    Hello all.

    Curt, it was good to see you at the track. Another young racer, Zach Craigo showed all what a good racing foundation karting provides. He took first on Saturday and second on Sunday in the formula Club Continental class.

    The track manager approached me wanting to allow a Kart-Only day at Second Creek (SCR). He is willing to provide a race kart only day (9-5) on Saturday, October 8, weather permitting. It is not a racing event, it is simply open practice. He says it is up to those there to separate themselves appropriately by speed and experience. The track number is 303-371-6661.
    The cost is $35/? day or $55/all day (cars are normally $60/100.)
    There will not be an ambulance unless you (whoever) pays for it. The track can get you the best deal. There is no participant insurance and you must sign a waiver. Parents must be with minors (17 and younger) to sign. The concession stand will be open.

    Second Creek closes in November so this is a last chance to play on that nice track before it disappears to development. Commerce City has issued 20,000 building permits around the track ? that is between the toxic Rocky Mountain Arsenal and the huge landfill and under the DIA flight path.

    Doug, thanks for the kind words. The old 914-6 will see the track again soon. Chris will race it (and others) in SCCA, PCA, RMVR, and more. He has been turning 1:05s in Formula Mazda. Finishing college comes first.

    You mentioned the injury at the SKUSA event at Second Creek. No one hit anything solid except the asphalt track, not even the tire barriers. This was the too typical situation of one kart running up over another and going airborne in the slowest corner. It could have happened at any event.
    The good news is he fully recovered and the triage ambulance, Emergency Medical Information Form, and the transport worked flawlessly. The ER had all of his personal information, vitals, etc. before he arrived.

    Alex, good to see you doing well with your kart racing. Say hi to your dad for me. You should have some track asphalt with a SCR decal as a growing up trophy.

    Guys, it seems I may have an infield ? mi. kart track layout for PPIR somewhere around here. I?ll look. Who should I send it to?

    Is anyone from the karting community involved with the replacement track? I haven?t seen anyone.

    FYI, the Colorado Motorsports Council (CMC) owns Second Creek track on leased land. We, the member clubs, have operated it for the membership all these years. Now it is time to build a new ?club? facility on owned ground with permanent zoning. This will not be designed for big deal pro spectator events but rather as a place similar to SCR, karting included. The member clubs are: RMVR, PCA, SCCA, MRA, and the various small car clubs (of which SKUSA is/was one). There are 17 total clubs.

    As Bobby says; ?Speed safely.? 😀


    Curt Kistler

    Thanks Grady,
    Hopefully the October 8th date will draw some karters out there. It is well worth the bucks just to go out and dust a few rabbits and prarie dogs. It would also be cool to see the two TZ 250 karts Barry at Billet built on the 8th also. I heard they were hitting +100 MPH at IMI!

    Sounds like a great way to just get together, run a relaxed practice day, cook up some grub and just hang out with karters. Were in.

    We keep hearing rumors about the new facility at Front Range Airport to be built by Centrix. It should have a kart facility on the property also. After being part of The Track at Centennial race team this year I know first hand how hard Jim is working just to break ground. For some reason motor sports in our state is a very tough venture to get involved in. Like you said, SCR land is contaminated, loud and not very eye appealing. However, they are going to build thousands of homes out there. Go figure.

    Hope to see you again soon.


    its great to hear from you, it has been a while. my dad says hi back. are you still teaching at creek? if so see you in a year. i look foward to driving second creek.



    Reminder about Second Creek kart only test ?n tune this Saturday. I posted the details above. Any questions call Bob the track manager at 720-427-0700 or 303-371-6661.

    Grady 😀

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