- This topic has 19 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 2 months ago by
.
- Posts
Yes it’s possible. All racing is expensive… “how fast do you want to go…” and all those same old sayings. The World Formula program got started last year at CRE and it was a fun way to enjoy the hobby without spending too much money.
In karting the real costs are the weekly racing expenses. Because the World Formula does not have the speed of shifters or tag karts, the expenses for tires, motor refresh, brakes, and fuel cost per race are a lot lower. The main savings is in the harder spec tires that last for 4+ race weekends instead of 1 or maybe 2 races like the higher HP karts. And the motor is good for two years before a refresh.
Here is an example of the performance difference. Same driver at CRE in an Arrow AX8 chassis with different motors. Rotax has 5lb more with softer tires:
Motor – Best Time – Best Speed (Avg speed over during the lap…)
Rotax Int. – 42.926 sec – 41.933 mph – http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=437824
World Formula – 46.310 sec – 38.868 mph – http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=4378363.3 seconds slower… not too bad. On a higher horsepower track the difference would be larger. Actual 3 seconds is a big difference in the racing world but that’s another post… CRE has demo karts for each class they run. If you have not started karting yet, take a road trip for some comparison testing. I’ll post more information about getting started in WF karting later.
James #45 WF
How much is the WF package? Reason I ask is that the Italkart/Leopard package is only like $4,000 new, which is a steal.
I just think overall we should all use harder tires…it would half the costs of any package.
I saw a WTF package on ebay not too long ago. Seemed pretty reasonable for a jet powered kart.
I’m sure can sqeeze one more class! 😯
James, How many W/F karts are in the Denver area that travel to CRE? It looks like there was some interest in racing at The Track last year if there was enough of them.
@Rick Schmidt wrote:
I saw a WTF package on ebay not too long ago. Seemed pretty reasonable for a jet powered kart.
I’m sure can sqeeze one more class! 😯
Haha, sounds good. I’m still workin’ on a Cummins TAG kart….it might have to run TAG Heavy…i think it weighs about 1100lbs minus driver and chassis :cheers:
Hey Chuck, I know what you mean about the Italkart/Leopard package. I’ve pondered that Ital package and easykart as a way to go. As far as WF cost go, the CRE shop has used tag/100cc 30/32 chassis with a new motor ready to go for $2600. I think he has a new WF chassis with new motor for $3400.
I agree with you on the harder tires. I must admit, I would prefer to be in a Rotax, but the tire budget is somewhat of a deal killer at this point in time. I have other considerations as well. To keep my family (wife) happy I only race once a month and the CRE schedule fits that nicely. I’m just a club racer looking for some wheel to wheel action on the cheap. My basic race cost for entry fees, pickup gas, kart gas, tires, oil, pro-rated engine refresh is around $120 per race. Of course there is always breakages that push the real cost higher… chains, sprockets, pods, etc…
Now Rick, by WTF package do mean “What The Fudge” package? 😀
Les, just me, everyone else is from the Springs… Greg Johnson has the brigg mods run here in Denver. It’s a cool class if you like to do the motor work. The WF could run at the back of their class. But there may be enough of a difference that we would have to watch for the blue flag toward the end of the main.
James #45 WF
You know, It’s hard being a racer when you hate to buy tires!
Chuck D Posted:
Haha, sounds good. I’m still workin’ on a Cummins TAG kart….it might have to run TAG Heavy…i think it weighs about 1100lbs minus driver and chassisMay be pooch in the corners, but look out on the straights!
James Laursen Posted:
You know, It’s hard being a racer when you hate to buy tires!Bingo!
James,
If you’re runing at the club level, you could certainly run a few races on the MG tires. You may be able to connect with someone to run their used rubber and help reduce your cost’s. Staying out of trouble can really ease the cost of operating as well.Part of the fun for us is the variety of circuits we have to choose from. Maybe do a one off here and there for the thrill of it. It’s almost inevitable, you’ll find someone that is in close competition with you. You may dice and thrice for whatever postion on the track but you want to beat them if you beat anyone and when they show up with better rubber, it’s hard not to step up. That’s where you need to make a gentlemens agreement with that individual to use comparable rubber to make it fun.
But then you get back to your comment. It’s a tough one for sure. :cheers:
Rick
The WTF ws just having some fun!
@James Laursen wrote:
Hey Chuck, I know what you mean about the Italkart/Leopard package. I’ve pondered that Ital package and easykart as a way to go. As far as WF cost go, the CRE shop has used tag/100cc 30/32 chassis with a new motor ready to go for $2600. I think he has a new WF chassis with new motor for $3400.
I agree with you on the harder tires. I must admit, I would prefer to be in a Rotax, but the tire budget is somewhat of a deal killer at this point in time. I have other considerations as well. To keep my family (wife) happy I only race once a month and the CRE schedule fits that nicely. I’m just a club racer looking for some wheel to wheel action on the cheap. My basic race cost for entry fees, pickup gas, kart gas, tires, oil, pro-rated engine refresh is around $120 per race. Of course there is always breakages that push the real cost higher… chains, sprockets, pods, etc…
Now Rick, by WTF package do mean “What The Fudge” package? 😀
Les, just me, everyone else is from the Springs… Greg Johnson has the brigg mods run here in Denver. It’s a cool class if you like to do the motor work. The WF could run at the back of their class. But there may be enough of a difference that we would have to watch for the blue flag toward the end of the main.
James #45 WF
You know, It’s hard being a racer when you hate to buy tires!
Yea, i really feel we should be using the Dunlop Sl-4’s.
Sunoco karters up in Canada use these even for Rotax Max and F1-K (like a CRG/Maxter easykart).They last 4 races….and the diff between new and old one’s isn’t near as great as MG’s. Its levels the playing field quite a bit and decreases costs a ton!
Think about it, to be competitive, you have to have at least 15 sets of MG yellows for a 5 race season (with practice, etc). On the cheap thats like $3000!! Almost the price of the kart.
You could have 5 sets of the Dunlops and cut it to $900 bucks and still be competitive!
@James Laursen wrote:
Les, just me, everyone else is from the Springs… Greg Johnson has the brigg mods run here in Denver. It’s a cool class if you like to do the motor work. The WF could run at the back of their class. But there may be enough of a difference that we would have to watch for the blue flag toward the end of the main.
James #45 WF
You know, It’s hard being a racer when you hate to buy tires!
I am thinking about it if I can find the tilly and intake cheap, I have the WF already. I don’t plan on doing much work on the engine except for the PVL ignition and carb to run alcohol.
BTW I don’t know if you recognize my name but I was the one who bought the alky animal from you so I could keep up with my kids JR1 kart. It is still running great and have not done anything to it except try the WF cam in it. I may be using it as a practice motor for Ty now…Les
Rick, I have no doubt a racer can run TAG on the cheap, but a racer can spend the same money and do the World Formulas at CRE competitively. That good to know about MGs. I’ve read and hear many different things about MG yellows. Everything from they bearly last a race day to running strong for two race days.
Chuck, I totaly agree… I’ve often wondered if the high weekly tire costs cause many racers to drop out towards the end of the season.
I’m not trying to canabalize any other classes or clubs, I just want open the knowlegde base to want-to-be racers that have been on the fence.
James #45 WF
Maybe I should try a different signature line: It’s hard being a racer when I’m such a cheapskate. 😀
James,
I wasn’t speaking towards Tag, just in general. What tires are you running at Cre in WF?
Chuck,
5 races 15 sets of tires? We ran 1 set per kart per weekend in the Csc and felt competitve. Maybe a the highest levels of the sport but not at our regional level.
BTW I don’t know if you recognize my name but I was the one who bought…
Les, I did reconize you. I am glad that motor is working out for you. I still have a complete limited mod from the 2004 CSC session. I’ve been thinking about setting it back to stock and selling off the limited mod parts and then the motor stock is a JRI or II motor. But I keep thinking I may run a club race or two at the Track with the briggs modified group.
What kind of HP bump do you think you will get with the methenal mod? I know Greg thinks his motor is in the 19-20hp range. I’m guess he had an align bore, decking, and a port job done to get to those numbers. On a good day my LMA was 16-17hp.
What tires are you running at Cre in WF?
Rick, we run Dunlop SL4. The grip stays very consistent for a long time and then drops like a rock. The fronts always go before the backs. When the fronts go there are no adjustments you can do to the kart to keep if from under steering. I can run the tire down through three quarters of a dot before I start thinking about changing it.
James, My guess is that the WF head and porting work is the real difference for Greg from a Mod animal. I am not sure what kind of bump I would get with a tilly on methanol with a stock WF, maybe around 3 with increasing the timing. I may also play with rejetting the WF PZ carb and see how it runs on alky just for fun.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.