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This is my dad and me talking.
TaG Rules for SR were to be Skusa/Tag +20 pounds. There have been posts to make Tag Sr straight Skusa?Tag weights.
But, the CSC rules released today are the same as last year with none of the modifications to weights as released earlier this week by Skusa after the various dyno tests were completed. So, if these are the final CSC rules they are neither Skusa nor Skusa +20. The problem with this is that we are not consistent with Skusa/Tag and are ignoring the weights they cameup with after testing. Something is not right with this, We think we should go with straight Skusa/Tag weights–this year not last years.Marc,
Did you read what I posted? The weights are not official! Brad is not happy with the results of the current testing and release from SKUSA/TAG and I made a point of saying that the weights are still up in the air. Comments are still encouraged, and I can’t tell you exactly when this will be settled. Brad is definitely aware of the situation and has seen the actual testing data that resulted in the recently posted weights. He is interested in not only getting it set right for the CSC, but at the national level.angie
My 2 cents….
I would personally like to run under SKUSA or TaGUSA rules. Then add a heavy class at the +20 rules.
But then again, if we dont have enough participation for 2 classes, I wouldn’t mind running a bit heavier. I would personally rather go to +10, since +20 is ALOT of extra weight for some of us already adding alot of lead to the kart.
Angie,
I understand that Brad is concerned for the weights, but he also has a vested interest in having the Bilands win the damn championship! Why doesn’t he or somebody else in charge of the CSC come out and state that the weights are going to be whatever Skusa/Tagusa determine + additional weight if that is what is necessary. The problem with additional weight lies in the fact that the motors with better bottom end torque have a competitive advantage at slower tracks and don’t have much of a bearing on the longer tracks. MORE Torque helps you through the bottom end corners – once you get the chassis rolling, weight doesn’t hurt you that much – it’s getting the chassis going that is the problem. And guess what, Biland has a lower torque band than any of the other motors. The new 2004 rules show the biland are +20 pounds over a rotax, but the current csc rules show only +5 difference, hummm???One additional point. The manufacturers submitted motor(s) to Tag/Skusa for testing and based on those tests that I’m sure were very extensive, they determined the weights. Is CSC questioning the results from the test?
with all due respect
My intentions are not baised, i just want to follow what is proven to work, dyno testing and what not. Lets do this skusa way and be done with it, i have a practice race in 3 weeks. lets know it by thenI was not at the meeting, I don’t know how it was left for the weights. Did everyone agree that once TagUSA/SKUSA posted weights that CSC would use those? or plus 10 or 20? Or was it left to be decided at a later date?if so, based on what? There was some tweaking of the weights already from last year’s to this year’s, so there must have been some discussion.
It is a good idea to run the poll, and get comments, so this can get finalized. That is the reason I posted Brad’s comments from ekarting. Brad suggested that we get this information out, AND GET FEEDBACK FROM THE RACERS. It will be up to the racers to agree on the issue. Maybe using Graeme’s idea (from the Sr/Hvy weight battle) of posting each person’s vote would be a better way, so that we know that those voting are indeed those racers involved.
The only other problem I see is that after a couple of races, TAGUSA/SKUSA decides to change the weights again, if not before. Then what, do we continue to flex with their program?
I know everyone wants the weights to be set, but in agreeing to base ours off of someone else’s, it drags the whole process out.
angie
I was not at the meeting either, but….
I see no reason why we shouldn’t follow the SKUSA/TAGUSA rules. They are the ones that have done the extensive testing. What has the CSC done to prove them wrong and change the weights?
I’m not a fan of the additional weight but if that is what has to be done, then ‘so be it’. It would be nice if we could break it up into light (exact skusa/tagusa weights) and heavy (additional weight), so that everyone can be happy.
Bottom line…. I’d like to hear a good reason to stray from the SKUSA/TaGUSA weights.
Again, Just my 2 cents. 😀
Spencer, I agree with you 100% I’ll run a heavier weight if I have to but would rather not. The only way we can get the class split up to have a very large turnout for TAG. If 30 or 40 people show up to run there will be no choice but to split the group.
I think Dennis is on to something about the weights.
Looks like we are the new Vortex Rok Dealer in Colorado. We are at the KMI show and after looking at all the TAG packages think this is the best choice for us. If anyone has any interest let me know as we are bringing new motor packages back with us for a complete test. Also lets go with the SKUSA and TAG weights and call it good. Stacey
I would be very disappointed if I have to run my Rotax at less than 385 lbs. 385 is really difficult for me to make as is (in prime condition I weigh at least 200 lbs) and if the weight is lowered another 10 or 20 lbs, I will have no chance to be competitive. If there are enough entrants to have a heavy class at 385 or more that would be OK, but I would prefer to race against a larger field where everyone is running at the same weight limits. I realize this is tough for lighter drivers who have to add weight, and I do have sympathy for the setup and kart weight problems they would have, but a lighter weight would be more than just an inconvenience for me – it would make it impossible for me to compete.
It has become odvious that a heavy class is NECCESARY, there are drivers that will have to be 20+, and guys adding close to 50lbs. Lets create a MAsters and a SR, the TaG will be large enough if everyone is included, after all there are 4 125cc classes, so 3 tag classes will work, especailly if they are run together, and qualified according to the qualification, not this stagger $#!^. Run where you qualify, and have good races
I disagree Marc. In the winter there is an inflated opinion of how many karts are going to compete the next season. 40 karts racing in this class? I’ll believe it when I see it, I think we’ll be lucky to have 20.
Trying to compete on the track against someone not in your class is not fun. Getting around a slower kart with 30 lbs. of less weight creates the problem, less weight with the same HP results in the guy getting off the corner quicker, but if he’s slower, it’s going to be that he’s slower at the end of the straight so it’s a late braking move, and cross your fingers he doesn’t cut down on you. You’ve got the problem of risking an off for a non-points position or letting the guys behind you catch up. One class on the track at one time is the best way to go. The fewer classes per race is also a better way to go in my opinion.
Courter and Jake used to load up their karts with 50 lbs. of weight in the old K1 class, and they didn’t have any problems with it.
I also don’t buy into the argument that this class should somehow adopt the same exact rules that the national organizations have so those drivers who want to compete nationally don’t have to change their set-ups. You?re going to have to change your set-up for a national race anyhow! With all the rubber laid down at a national race, and with different tracks, a Bandimere or IMI setup isn’t going to help any.
Adopting the weight differences laid out by SKUSA/TaG USA for the different motors I think is a good idea though. It concerns me that the rules for this class still have the weights from last year.
Jeff, no one said that keeping the weights the same as Tag Usa and SKUSA would mean that there would be no chassis adjustments at a National event. Chassis adjustments are made several times a day at our local events. The argument is that to take off 20 pounds to go to a National event, you have to remove weight and re-scale and re-ballance your kart. When you race at 395 pounds at the local level and CSC series, you accumulate data on your set ups, removing the 20 pounds has a huge effect on your data. Same thing applies to tire data. There are 4 125 classes, why is it so hard to have 3 Tag classes, why does it take 40 Tag drivers to split a tag class when it takes half that to split a 125 class?
No matter how many show up for the first race, a vote should settle the argument.
Any and all data that you collect at IMI, Bandimere, Grand Junction or CRE is of absolutly no value to you at any other track, particularly if you are running a national level event. Also, if you think that what ever your balance or weights are of any consideration, you are wrong. Moving the weight and the seat is one of your best tools to get the kart to handle. I no longer check the balance of the kart, I no longer scale the kart as they are usless measurements and a complete waste of time. What is important is how the kart is handling and the conditions at a national level event are so different that any and all base lines you could come up with localy are irrelavent.
As far as adding weight. I have had more than 50# of weight on our karts since the early days of Junior 1 Briggs. Any argument that such amount of weight is unsafe or somehow detrimental to the kart are irrelevent and completely baseless. 50# of lead does two things, it gives me a tuning tool that some one with less weight doesn’t have and it hurts my back from lifting all the dead weight.
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