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I track my costs for karting down to the dollar and each yr they are going up. Let me preface what I am going to say by saying:
I ran the complete IMI Club season and CSC season and 50% of the Rmax Challeng season in 2005 and 100% of all three in the 2004 season.
As I look at the costs I have or will spend:
~$1,500 on tires
~$850 on race entry fees
~$650 on pit spots, series fees (R-max, WKA, SKUSA, etc)everyother category else is <$200; in total without adding my new kart/suit/shoes I have spent ~$5,500.Now you big spenders don’t laugh because you are over $10-15-20,000-I am talking about the average guy.The cost of tires and all fees are too HIGH & GOING HIGHER!There has to be ways of driving these costs down:
***band together and buy tires direct or in bulk for different clubs
***recycle fairly good used tires to beginner and lower division racers instead of throwing them out
***give discounts for race fees or pit spots if paid in advance: like a 5 or 10 race booklet or season pass.
***reduced rate for registrations if paid before a certain date
***Choice of trophies or a Plaque with name/date/place (like George does)or a set of tires or a half a set or 2-4 gals of gas, set of 4 spark plugs, chain. gears, free day of practice, etcThere are more ideas out there, I know. Let’s wait till the season is over, in 2 wks and start brainstorming.
Whether it is as a Club or a group of racers or all of the CO karters or something, we need to lower costs to keep our present membership and to draw more Newbies.
I totally agree with tires. Sure they’re really not that expensive at $160 a pop, but thats $160 a day to run! I’ve talked to guys who run SCCA and Legends cars, a $600 set of tires will last a season!
I’d love to brainstorm as well……….or pitch in on a group buy from MG or whoever.
Let me know Rich!
Are you gonna be down at CRE this weekend or no?
We have always had a deal on tires if you buy five or more sets at a time. If you save $20 a set you will save about $200-$300 a year. There is not a 100% mark up on kart products like all motorcycle shops have, 15-25% at the most.
Why did you all vote in MG tires that only last one race? SKUSA is the reason so like it or leave it!
Why don’t all you guys who think the kart shops and tracks are bending you over on parts and race fee’s get together and open your own track and kart shop and run it as a non-profit and I will build a housing project on my land and retire!
If you can’t afford to race karts then take up a new hobby like chess.
Rich,
For the amount of racing you did this year you did pretty well with what you spent. I feel racing has always been expensive, and has stayed pretty much with the times on cost-of-living vs: cost-of-racing.We are not a big buck family and would have never raced pro 125 ICC this year without our sponsors. Who knows what next season will offer as far as sponsors and personal budgets will go. Wait and see I guess.
Be careful on bulk buying tires, fuel… to save a few bucks. It’s always better racing on fresh stuff rather than something that has been sitting in a box in someone’s garage for 4-6 months. Going back to the durometer (sp) rule on tires might give us racers some buying power with discounts pitting the different mfg’s against one another.
Anyway, I’m impressed with your 2005 budget. We spent that in Vegas last year and are still paying for it. 👿
See you later,
CurtPS: Chuck, that one set a season rumor is just about as wacky as shifters going 125MPH. Still haven’t seen either one happen.
How about running Dunlop tires?
I’ve heard they’ll last a LOT longer than MG’s (which i still love, but they just aren’t as economical).
And I don’t think winning any of these series or making times faster, etc is going to bring in outside money, sponsorship, whatever to colorado. We can’t even keep our road-course tracks for heaven’s sake.
I’ve heard you’re a mean ass chess player Brad, so I’m still skeptical about picking up that hobby 😛
If tire costs are an issue, then why not reduce overall costs by choosing a compound that wears longer? There’s nothing saying you “have” to use a sticky compound to get a decent race. If everyone is using the same/similar compound everything stays even. Plus if you can get several races out of a set, cool.
Or you can go race 4-cycles. Those guys’ tires seem to last forever.
On the other hand if costs are just too much, then I must respectfully agree with Brad. Get out, because it’s not going to get a lot cheaper. Face it, it’s racing. It’s expensive. It always has been and always will be. Wait till you see race fuel prices over the next year or two.
As an FYI, for what you spend on a kart racing season ($5K +/-, you could could race an RC car for 2-3 years, all year round and still have a ball.
Rich wouldn’t even have to leave town – the Hobbytown in FC races every sunday in their parking lot during the warm weather (april-october I think).
just my .02
@Rich Vito wrote:
I track my costs for karting down to the dollar and each yr they are going up. Let me preface what I am going to say by saying:
I ran the complete IMI Club season and CSC season and 50% of the Rmax Challeng season in 2005 and 100% of all three in the 2004 season.
As I look at the costs I have or will spend:
~$1,500 on tires
~$850 on race entry fees
~$650 on pit spots, series fees (R-max, WKA, SKUSA, etc)everyother category else is <$200; in total without adding my new kart/suit/shoes I have spent ~$5,500.
Now you big spenders don’t laugh because you are over $10-15-20,000-I am talking about the average guy.
The cost of tires and all fees are too HIGH & GOING HIGHER!
There has to be ways of driving these costs down:
***band together and buy tires direct or in bulk for different clubs
***recycle fairly good used tires to beginner and lower division racers instead of throwing them out
***give discounts for race fees or pit spots if paid in advance: like a 5 or 10 race booklet or season pass.
***reduced rate for registrations if paid before a certain date
***Choice of trophies or a Plaque with name/date/place (like George does)or a set of tires or a half a set or 2-4 gals of gas, set of 4 spark plugs, chain. gears, free day of practice, etcThere are more ideas out there, I know. Let’s wait till the season is over, in 2 wks and start brainstorming.
Whether it is as a Club or a group of racers or all of the CO karters or something, we need to lower costs to keep our present membership and to draw more Newbies.
Going to the MG only tire rule has effectively doubled the cost of tires for a majority of racers as compared with using the YHC or Maxxis which last two or more races for most classes. You want to save the most on your list of expenses go back to our old tire rules.
How many people at a regional race actually raced on YHC’s that had one complete race on them? And was remotely competitive with their normal competition.
Todd,Let me bring you out of the dark. I get 4 races out of a set of YHC compared to 1 w/ MG. ,that the other racers are getting.99% of my class run MG.And YES I’m out front. That was the main issue w/ the 4 cycle racers . TIRES!!!!
I have yet to find a tire that doesn’t perform better new than after a few heat cycles. Every tire we have ever run, and we have run B’stones, MG, Maxxis, Yokahama, Dunlop, there always seem to be one or two laps in them in their first heat cycle that’s .3 ot .5 faster than subsquent laps. What this means is that for qualifying, it’s much better to have new tires than old.
Bottom line, I really don’t care how long the tire lasts. It’s a moot point. If you want to qualify up front, you WILL go out on new tires. The MG is a fine tire. I have a whole pile of them that could easily get one or two more races out of them. But there no way we will use them for anything but practice. The simple reason is this, we want to qualify on the front row if not pole. The only way you will be able to do that is with new tires.
It doesn’t matter what tire you pick, hard, soft, medium, at every race, if you want the front row, you will be on new tires. Changing tire brands will have minimal impact on overall tire costs.
In NorCal, they use hard tires which in theory last all year. Yet at every race, the front runners are on new tires. The reason is simple, new tires are faster than old tires.
While many bad mouth the Mojo tires, they actually are pretty good. At the Rotax Grands, most of the teams had figured them out. The racers were allowed only one set of tires for the event. And they put alot of laps on them with so many heat races, qualifying, LCQ’s and such. The tires had plenty of life in them after all that. But, they, like all tires have one or two very fast laps in them before they settle down. Could you get two or three race days in, sure you can. But if you want to run up front, you need new tiress for qualifying.
For me, I could easily run MG Yellows for 2 races. On several occasions this year I ran 1-race old MGs for practice and there was still plenty of tread wear left. I think the MGs maintain their speed pretty well. I used new tires for each race mainly because new MGs give you a bit of an edge for qualifying. I plan on using my Bandimere tires at IMI this weekend.
My suggestion, at least for CSC races, would be to mark the tires and require that they be used for 2 races. In other words, every other race would be a “new tire” race.
Maybe other people would have issues with this and this wouldn’t be workable. I’d be interested in hearing what others have to say.
Also, though it would be useful to save money on tires, I don’t think that’s the big thing keeping new karters out. I think it’s 2 things:
1. Cost of getting in – I estimate it cost me close to $10,000 including the cost of a used kart, all associated tools and accessories, driver’s gear, and spare parts.
2. Lack of promotion of karting – I lived in Colorado for 3 years before I heard anything about karting here. I just happened to hear from a coworker that he went to a birthday party at IMI.
Charles
There were plenty of racers that were competive that used YHC tires for two races for most every class but pro 125, they used YHBs one race. What are you saying Todd? That it does not matter what tire you use, you can only be competitve one race day on a set of tires? The reality is about 90% of the racers are midpack and it would not make any difference if they had new tires or not. But now everyone gets one day except for the 4 strokes and the kid karts. It does make a difference if you allow MG yellows to run with the YHC but we did not allow the MG yellows last year.
IMI is particularly hard on front tires. The turns are gentle and the speeds high. The kart tends to push and that takes the front tires off the kart. There are some things you can do to the kart to help mitigate it.
We have had great luck with the MG’s this year… Most everyone preferred the MG’s over the BStones for tire wear. On the Mini Max’s we ran upto 3 races on one set and seemed to do fairly well…
Chuck D.,
I will be at IMI for the next two Sunday’s for the Club races.
Alot of good comments.
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