CSC ’04 TaG Rules

[Anonymous]

I hope that we will adopt a simple tire rule and keep it at ONE specific tire. I would recommend using the Bridgeston YGK, the Durometer on this tire is 58, which is one of the hardest tires that is run under TAG rules. Also, since Rotax drivers have to use this tire in Rotax Max Challenge races it should be easier to supply.

We also need to take a look at the weight situation and adopt true Tag Rules….I’m leaning to believe that next year the Biland will have to add more weight and we should follow accordingly……please just adopt the Tag Int’l rules and make it easy.

Dennis Garwood
Rotax #12

[Rusty Newberry]

Let’s see what Argy decides to do for next year and we adjust accordingly.

[Anonymous]

@Dennis Garwood wrote:

I hope that we will adopt a simple tire rule and keep it at ONE specific tire. I would recommend using the Bridgeston YGK, the Durometer on this tire is 58, which is one of the hardest tires that is run under TAG rules. Also, since Rotax drivers have to use this tire in Rotax Max Challenge races it should be easier to supply.

We also need to take a look at the weight situation and adopt true Tag Rules….I’m leaning to believe that next year the Biland will have to add more weight and we should follow accordingly……please just adopt the Tag Int’l rules and make it easy.

Dennis Garwood
Rotax #12

Here is a sampling of TaG weights from TaG USA rules:

TaG International
Rotax = 365
Sonik = 365
Comer = 370
Leopard = 370
Jaguar = 370
Biland = 375
Italsistem = 390
Vortex = 375

Weights for the Masters classes ads 30 pouns to each of the above.

Our ’03 TaG Sr. weights are:

Rotax = 385
Leopard = 390
BM = 385
Biland = 390
Sonik = 385
Vortex = 400
Italsistem = 415

So if we add 20# to the TaG USA International weights to get CSC TaG Sr Weights, it appears that the Biland comes up 5# shy. The Ital motor and the Vortex would be 5# fat, or something along those lines, so yes, it would appear that our weight for the Biland is a bit off. Enough to make a difference.

The next question would be do we stay with the 20# over TaG USA for ’03, or do we go heavier or lighter?

I’d vote for staying where it’s at, but adjust the Bliand, Vortex and Italsistem so they’re 20# over like the rest.

I’d still be 20# over that weight, but if I can’t drop 20 by next season, I deserve to be a backmarker 🙂

[Anonymous]

I would hope that we simply adopt the Tag USA weights and rules, but I understand that there are a few people that would be hurt by this rule. I think that there could be compromise by adding 10-20 #’s above the Tag rules but it makes it more difficult to get your chassis tuned when you go to a Tag event like RIGP.

[Anonymous]

@Dennis Garwood wrote:

I would hope that we simply adopt the Tag USA weights and rules, but I understand that there are a few people that would be hurt by this rule. I think that there could be compromise by adding 10-20 #’s above the Tag rules but it makes it more difficult to get your chassis tuned when you go to a Tag event like RIGP.

I’ve been thinking about this all day for chrissakes. God, you think I’d have a life or something.

If we were to adopt TaG USA rules and keep 2 classes, what would they be?

First leave Jr. where it’s at.

Do we adopt TaG Masters weight? I’m okay with that, but you get some lightweight like a Mike Broad (about 130 – 140). That’s gonna be a real pain in the butt for somebody like that. That’s one heavy kart.

Do we go with International instead? Well, I’m about 45 pounds over that weight. I might be able to loose that weight or a big part of it, but somebody else?

I’m also against splitting the Sr. Class. Not enough people to make it worthwile. Most of us are attracted to the class size, and we have no guarantee that the shops will sell enough TaG karts to make up the difference. Maybe in another year, but not right now.

So what do we do? In ’03 we kind of drew it down the middle and I’d be content leaving weights as they are. And the classes. It seems to be the fairest to everyone. It seems to work.

But I am open to suggestions.

Maybe just leave it as is, with some wieght adjustment for the Bilands, etc., promote the crap out of the class, and take a look at ’05?

[Anonymous]

Chaz, who’s going to officially answer this question? Input is great, but who are we giving input too.

I have not been impressed with anything from TaG USA, heck, they’re the ones that screwed up the MG Yellow rule. I’m sure the Rock Island Grand Prix was great, but how much credit should go to TaG USA vs. the promoters of the race?

Dennis makes one important point, according to our friend down in Texas, the upper limit of driver weight these karts are designed for is 170 lbs. So when we go above the listed TaG weights, we’re compromising the tunability of the kart. If we’re only racing locally, I don’t think it matters, but it does matter if you want to race beyond that. I’d still vote for one-class and +20 lbs, but I think Dennis has a good point.

I’m for an open tire rule with a limited durometer rating; I believe it keeps expenses down

I also think the leopard is at least 5# too heavy. But I’d rather have a process with someone responsible, like Rusty, have a one day test at Action, and a one day test at IMI, with 3 known drivers that put down consistent lines, average out all the results and adjust weight accordingly. I’d also only open it up to locally supported motors; Leopard, Rotax, Biland, and Sonic. Why complicate things with adding other motors like the ultra monster HP Italsys?

[Anonymous]

Chaz, who’s going to officially answer this question? Input is great, but who are we giving input too.

That’s a good question. Ultimately it will be up to “The Powers That Be”, and by that I mean Brad, JB, and Stacy unless the administrative structure of the series changes. However, they will more than like accomodate reasonable suggestions. They have in years past, anyway.

I have not been impressed with anything from TaG USA, heck, they’re the ones that screwed up the MG Yellow rule.

I’ll agree to a point. There are somethings in the TaG USA rules that don’t sit well and others that are plain confusing. The datalogger rules are one example.

That said, on one hand I don’t care for the rules all that much, on the other they do represent a starting point for us if nothing else.

I’d still vote for one-class and +20 lbs, but I think Dennis has a good point.

I think the TaG USA International + 20# is pretty good too. That’s about where we’re at right now, and everyone seems pretty content (at least for the most part). You’re right about Dennis’ point though. Some of our people will wantb to do RMC, or TaG USA or Rock Island, or whatever. I think we need to keep that in mind, but going to International weight for TaG Sr. would put the heavier drivers in a bad place while going to masters weight would hamstring the light guys. So maybe 20 pounds is where it’s at.

I also think the leopard is at least 5# too heavy. But I’d rather have a process with someone responsible, like Rusty, have a one day test at Action, and a one day test at IMI, with 3 known drivers that put down consistent lines, average out all the results and adjust weight accordingly.

You may be right about the Leopard weight, but I don’t know. Doing a test day or two as you suggest might be more of reinventing the wheel than is necessary.

One engine being consistently slower could mean consistently slower drivers rather than being over-weighted.

I thinkmour weights are less than perfect, but I also think we might consider giveing them another year?

[Anonymous]

Gentlemen,

since I am known as the “Tall Guy” in the class and even as lean as I am (205), I can’t lose another 20 so i am obviously all for Tag + 20. KEEP the class seperate as one (as long as we don’t have to race against the Jr’s). To me our TAG Sr class IS popular because we have high participation and I don’t think anyone wants to race with a total of 6 or less, correct?

Mike Jansen
Rotax #27

[Anonymous]

@M Jansen wrote:

Gentlemen,

since I am known as the “Tall Guy” in the class and even as lean as I am (205), I can’t lose another 20 so i am obviously all for Tag + 20. KEEP the class seperate as one (as long as we don’t have to race against the Jr’s). To me our TAG Sr class IS popular because we have high participation and I don’t think anyone wants to race with a total of 6 or less, correct?

Mike Jansen
Rotax #27

You absolutely right, Mike. I’m not tall, but I am heavy. Heavier than you (much to my doctor’s chagrin). With dicipline (yeah, right) and a lot of work, I could get down to a weight closer to minumum, but right now?

There have been some discussions about a Masters class, but most people I’ve talked to would rather not have that if it meant reducing the overall class size.

I wonder, though, how many people would there be that are eligible for a Masters class? Right now, I’m thinking 6-8, and maybe a few more by the start of next season.

How many would it take?

[Anonymous]

As a limited schedule TAG racer and one of the older guys, I too think it would be a mistake to add another class. The 2 classes seem to have respectable fields and a lot of racing.
I am all for the national rules and if the local tracks agree to up the weights to create full fields.

[Anonymous]

As a limited schedule TAG racer and one of the older guys, I too think it would be a mistake to add another class. The 2 classes seem to have respectable fields and a lot of racing.
I am all for the national rules and if the local tracks agree to up the weights to create full fields I am all for it.

[Doug Welch]

I think it would be great if we could have an international class and a masters. But not at the expense of dropping from 15 to 20 karts in one class to 6 or 8 in two classes. That seems to be going backwards to me. Next thing you know we would be like IKF with a weight class for every driver! 🙄

I want to keep the rules within the TaG USA rules but with our own weights. That way a guy can qualify for TaG USA festivals next year.

By the way , this years series was sanctioned by TaG USA and every guy/gal who did 75% of the races this year is eligable for all TaG USA national events next year. All you have to do is join TaG USA (something like $25 bucks) and go have fun.

[Anonymous]

For TaG Sr. I would like to see TaG USA International rules + 20 pounds across the board (all engines) for ’04.

Drop the MG Yellow in favor of the Red as specified.

Can we ignore the datalogger rules? So Dumb.

Otherwise TaG USA Rules

Oh where can we get tech specs for some of these engines? We can get Leopard Specs from Russell. What about Biland, Rotax & Sonik?

@Doug Welch wrote:

I think it would be great if we could have an international class and a masters. But not at the expense of dropping from 15 to 20 karts in one class to 6 or 8 in two classes. That seems to be going backwards to me. Next thing you know we would be like IKF with a weight class for every driver! 🙄

I want to keep the rules within the TaG USA rules but with our own weights. That way a guy can qualify for TaG USA festivals next year.

By the way , this years series was sanctioned by TaG USA and every guy/gal who did 75% of the races this year is eligable for all TaG USA national events next year. All you have to do is join TaG USA (something like $25 bucks) and go have fun.

[Author]

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