2 strokes and 4 strokes

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    larry toby

    My last thread on this subject was obviously poorly written and misunderstood so I will try to be clearer this time.

    We purchased the Jr Vampire engine (four stroke) more than a month ago and had signed up for the CSC Jr Tag class at that time listing the Jr Vampire engine and with the understanding that it would be allowed to run in the Jr Tag class, as four strokes had been allowed in the past. For whatever reason, TagUSA created two new four stroke Tag classes this year (Jr and Sr), separating two strokes from four strokes. We were informed by a CSC official Sunday morning that there was a controversy concerning the use of the new Jr Vampire engine. The performance of the engine would be monitored and a decision would be made later as to whether it would be allowed to run in the Jr Tag class or be forced to run in a new Four Stroke Jr Tag class. As of this time we still have not been informed of any decision.

    Based on the excellent racing we witnessed Sunday with Vampire engines in both the Jr and Sr Tag groupings, I am petitioning strongly that the Jr Vampire be allowed to compete in the Jr Tag class against the two stroke engines. The Jr Tag class had exceptionally good, close racing between the two top drivers all day. One was using a two stroke engine while the other was using the four stroke engine in question. It was obvious that the engines had different performance characteristics with the two stroke having an advantage on certain parts of the track while the four stroke had an advantage on other parts of the track. (Please don?t misconstrue this as any kind of cheating!!!). In the end, the performances evened out and the result was extremely good, close racing. Based on that race I think it makes sense to allow the engines to race together all season long.

    There was another Vampire at Bandi that was run in the Sr Tag class group but it was scored separately. The CSC decided early on that this class would stand alone. The four stroke engine also provided some close racing with the two strokes. The point is that the Vampire engine did not dominate in either group but was competitive enough to provide some great racing in both groups.

    I have not talked with Roman (driver of the Sr Vampire package) but my guess would be that he would prefer to race heads up with the Sr Tag guys than have to be scored separately. If memory serves correctly, he was about third fastest in the group all day.

    The point of this post is to find out what the CSC officials and drivers think about allowing the new four stroke engines to run with the two stroke engines. I, for one, think that fewer classes lead to bigger fields and better racing. There is no question in my mind that when you mix engines there will be some that have an advantage at certain tracks while other engines will have an advantage at different tracks. That is what Tag racing is all about – even if it is two strokes against two strokes or fours strokes against four strokes.

    Tag USA continuously makes the point that their rules and guidelines are a starting point and that local series should adapt rules that makes more sense in their area. Even the CSC rule book states in the Jr Tag section, 11.9 that, ?There may be slight differences between the CSC rules and what is published for TaGUSA.?

    In the end, whatever decision is made, it will not keep us from racing. We?re just hoping to have a bigger field. I think it would be good to hear from the two stroke drivers what their concerns are about racing with the four strokes.

    Rodney Ebersole

    IMO Sundays race wasn’t a day to compair and come to a conclusion on the maximum preformance of a racers power plant.
    I also wonder where you got the “understanding” that this new motor would be allowed to compete with all the other TAGs? More than a month ago I understood TAGUSA was starting a nother class of tag four strokes with these motors.
    Larry I have nothing against the newer four strokes and am a little excited about there development. Yet, for $2,000 more in intial investment I sort of hope that these motors preform better than the current TAG motors, even though the last thing karting needs is more classes to choose from.

    larry toby


    I agree that given the unusal conditions of Sunday’s race that it is not the best indicator of things to come. My concern is how far will we go into the season before a decision is made?

    My understanding came from a discussing with Brad. He had been talking with Marty Cassey of TagUSA and the thought at the time was that it would be good to run the Jr Vampire together with the two strokes here in Colorado as a test bed.

    I also am excited about the development of these new engines. I think they are a sign of things to come. They are more expensive up front but my hope is that the overall cost of operation will be lower because of higher reliability and lower maintenance costs. I know that has proven to be true with my motorcycles. I do think they offer more performance potential than the current Tag engines but they are being restricted by TagUSA with the intent to level the playing field. We all know how difficult that is.

    Rodney Ebersole

    “they are being restricted by TagUSA with the intent to level the playing field. We all know how difficult that is.”

    Yes, very difficult and if this is the test bed for figuring it out I certainly would hope that it would take more than one rain race to come to a conclusion. A test bed is one thing and racing for season points is a nother.
    Which one are you doing? Do you expect booth?

    larry toby

    It is our intent to run for points regardless of what class we get put into.

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